the future is now, where's the cool shit?

[Inconuucl]

Ugh there's so much awesome looking shit just on the front page of the Muffwiggler store--my head almost explodes every time I try to investigate that world beyond just surface browsing.

Any good resources for noobs out there? I'd kill for a good site with some suggestions on how to get started, maybe describing a few potential avenues.

The goddamn Pittsburgh box just had to get my already gear addled brain all a-whir.

Our good pal Aen has a whole series on modulars, look in the Dwarfcraft forum right here.

[popvulture]

Yesssssss

Much appreciated!

[aens_wife]

Part of the issue comes down to plain old money. To develop something totally new, you have to have the money to support the rest of your business while you are fucking around for a year or so with new shit. Most small builders don't have that kind of money, but might have amazing ideas. Most big builders have the money, but either don't have the ideas or don't want to take the risk.

I mean, the risk is kind of huge. You could spend tens of thousands of dollars on R&D and put something out that simply confuses guitar players (easy to do) and very few people buy it.

The modular format dudes seem to be way way more interested in pushing the envelope, so that is where the innovation is coming from. That group is lightyears beyond where the pedal community is, as far as processing/modulation/etc goes. I'd love to see that Pittsburgh Patch Box blow that open for guitar players, but I am not entirely confident that it will take off.

[rfurtkamp]

Yea, I don't know how it'll do with guitar players. I'm meh on the concept - I don't need things in a pedal format, and am not afraid of rack gear.

Some of the cool shit just goes over like lead balloons, and unless you're Roland or Korg or somebody on that level, you can't risk a total flop. And there they're both torn by their split loyalties - to a Japanese market that wants one thing, and a non-Japanese market that wants something totally different, and then mix in guitar player eccentricities.

[Jwar]

Part of the issue comes down to plain old money. To develop something totally new, you have to have the money to support the rest of your business while you are fucking around for a year or so with new shit. Most small builders don't have that kind of money, but might have amazing ideas. Most big builders have the money, but either don't have the ideas or don't want to take the risk.

I mean, the risk is kind of huge. You could spend tens of thousands of dollars on R&D and put something out that simply confuses guitar players (easy to do) and very few people buy it.

The modular format dudes seem to be way way more interested in pushing the envelope, so that is where the innovation is coming from. That group is lightyears beyond where the pedal community is, as far as processing/modulation/etc goes. I'd love to see that Pittsburgh Patch Box blow that open for guitar players, but I am not entirely confident that it will take off.

The biggest problem is not in small builders though. It's the big builders who have the ability to do new things but chose not to because people will still buy the old stuff. Eventide for instance with the H9. Why did we all want one or most of us? It's not new. It's their existing pedals and algo's in one box, with some more features and less features in some respects. I'm actually surprised the H9 didn't flop after having one for so long. I find it annoying non user friendly. Who wants to control a pedal with their phone or pc? Not me. That's ridiculously annoying to me. Plus you have to spend hours to build it into what you want.

Same goes for Strymon. I like their stuff, but most of it is MEH. Big time MEH.

Now the Deep Impact is being re-released and that dude has actually revamped the entire thing, so it's actually pretty innovative by today's standards. But for the most part, it's all a bunch of shit in the digital world. Which sucks.

I don't like having to buy extra controls or spend hours just to get the most out of my pedal. I want to push a button, and be done. Source Audio actually IMO is the best innovators out there right now with this type of technology, but even they are going to the whole app scheme. I hate APPS!!! Fuck my phone!!! lol

I'm very interested in the Pittsburgh module, but I'm afraid it will just be rehashed ideas. Like using old euros that have been around forever. I don't' even want to mess with that stuff even though it seems cool.

I want something simple, yet mind blowing and complex.

I'm a needy bastard, I know.


I think Tone God was onto something with his multi use fuzz pedal, but the implementation was all wrong. It was a great idea, but it just didn't work right.


If I had the extra cash, I'd bank roll the shit out of R&D in the digital world.

[backwardsvoyager]

the thing with apps is it's all cost-cutting shit. if it meant we only had to spend a couple of hundred dollars on simple hardware pedals which could be controlled super deeply with an app then yeah sure that's a logical step to take, but the way Eventide did it with the H9 is fucking shameful, same price as their ridic stompboxes with a dozen knobs and you still have to pay for any extra 10 year old effects algorithms you want, sure it's convenient for some people but it was a lame-ass step for them to take. it's just pandering to users who care more about board space than exploring sounds.

strymon stuff is IMO nicely engineered but it's all so SAFE, every parameter is so goddamn fine and calculated that you can never get any surprising sounds out of them. i honestly loved the way some of their pedals have sounded for me especially in a live setting and in stereo but sometimes you just want shit to go out of control and you can't do that with strymon peds, it's all so NICE sounding it just makes me wanna puke.

as far as the Pittsburgh patch box goes i think it's hard to say because the whole point of modular is you play it like an instrument, switching and tweaking things at your fingertips, putting eurorack in a floor box is just encouraging people to explore a limited portion of what those things can do, sure you could come up with combinations in the small space given to produce neat sounds but people are gonna spend like 1-2k on these and just set and forget it.

[D.o.S.]

Tube amps deal with distortion pedals so much better than most SS it's not even legitimate to say 'there's no difference'

I disagree. Like a LOT. LOL. I

D.o.S. Is right in my experience. I've never found an SS amp with the same harmonic content as a tube amp either.

To be fair, solid state guitar amps never recovered after all the shitty low end amps that were built, whereas there are plenty of good high end bass amps.

Exactly. And it's a nitpicky thing for most bassists since a lot of us aren't running shit super hot into an amp that's melting. For those of us that are/do, though, and in combination with the fact that the preamps on the 'classic' tube bass amps are what I've been conditioned to respond to emotionally (like in my pants, get it?) by virtue of their inclusion on many thousands of timeless records... and basically anything with "crisp high end sizzle and articulate midrange response" can go fuck itself because it sounds like an unbleached unwaxed asshole covering Supertramp. Badly.

[D.o.S.]

Also most gear people are nothing more than trendchasers who won't actually appreciate what something's doing until they hear it on the radio, inevitably a year or two after said pedal has been blown out for "no one is buying this please buy it" prices (ala the Deep Impact, which was on sub$100 clearance for like a year plus. Same with the Headrush, I'd wager).

[behndy]

hurm. i LIKE the H9. i didna look at it as trying to innovate, but offer access to all their loot in one box. the app is really awesome, at least in having a layout with all the knobs labeled since they change a lot between each patch. i hate that there is no Android app, i might ditch mine if they don't add one soon, but when i had an iphone, i way would rather tweak/design a patch with the app then menu dive with the old Eventide boxes. and there is a LOT of neat control if you play with the app.

i get not liking apps, but i thought they did a good job with the interface. unlike Strymon. the backup is OKAY, but an actual editor would be LOVELY.

yeah? i guess most Strymon is more geared to Pretty Pretty Shiny safer playing. but i've got some nasty awesome things out of their boxes. the Big Sky does some ABRASIVE stuff.

lol. Jwarious.... but..... but you HAVE to learn something more complex like a good multi. there's no way you can have delth and Touch One Knob MAGIC HAPPENS no?

[goroth]

My problem with the app model is support. Look at all Rfurt's old rack stuff. That is digital as fuck and old and you can still go in and deep edit shit if you want. But how's my H9 going to work in 30 years time after smart phones are just a blip on the technological memory chart? Am I going to have to rely on some dude making an open source iOS emulator that can run on whatever the shit it is that we are using in 30 years? It just seems an insanely short-sighted approach to sound creation.

[D.o.S.]

^ That is part of the reason I try to work with stompboxes and the like. Doesn't have to be 'analog' but there are definitely advantages with sticking around technology that's designed to be used with 40 and 50 year old gear, rather than jumping on stuff that's just as likely to get 8-Track-ed, if you will.

[D.o.S.]

that and I'm basically a giant moron so if it has anything that aren't knobs and 3dpt switches I just drool on it until it goes away.

[jrmy]

I keep reading this as "the future is now, where't the cool shirt?"

But I think this discussion is probably much more interesting. I'm especially digging the part about how non-app-based fx are more future-proof.

Sorry, carry on.

[goroth]

I keep reading this as "the future is now, where't the cool shirt?"

But I think this discussion is probably much more interesting. I'm especially digging the part about how non-app-based fx are more future-proof.

Sorry, carry on.

Yeah, where is the cool shirt? It's been a while since the last ILF shirt

[Dark Barn]

My problem with the app model is support. Look at all Rfurt's old rack stuff. That is digital as fuck and old and you can still go in and deep edit shit if you want. But how's my H9 going to work in 30 years time after smart phones are just a blip on the technological memory chart? Am I going to have to rely on some dude making an open source iOS emulator that can run on whatever the shit it is that we are using in 30 years? It just seems an insanely short-sighted approach to sound creation.

You would just need to know the MIDI implementation for the most part. Assuming MIDI will be around in 30 years... Lol.