Do locking trems suck?

[Moustache_Bash]

What's been your guys' experience? I never alt tune, so seems like something neat. But I don't know shit.

[backwardsvoyager]

From those i've tried, I couldn't stand Floyd Rose units, they're basically clunky strat trems with better tuning stability.
Buuuut I used to have a guitar with an Ibanez Edge Zero w/ZPS and that was an AMAZING trem, super smooth, rock solid tuning stability, easy system to tinker with the setup although restringing was still kinda annoying (this is inevitable though, and you can put the ball ends at the headstock to even out the work at the bridge to make it easier). Super easy to do wacky or subtle vibrato stuff and it would never go out of tune or break strings.
It really depends on the unit I think. Keep in mind they're basically useless without either a locking nut or locking tuners but any new guitar will come with that anyway.

[culturejam]

My only experience with a locking trem is the "Lo-Pro Edge" on my '93 Ibanez 770dx. It's a Floyd Rose at the core, but it's engineered very ergonomically. It's also the type that you clip off the ball end and then clamp the string in the trem block with a screw/allen key. Works great overall. Tuning stability is outrageous on that thing. I actually used to play Rage's Fistful of Steel and do ALL of the divebombs manually (like Tom does 'em), and it never went out of tune even a tiny bit. Thing is outstanding.

However, it is a bit finicky. The only way it works for me is if I tune to E or Eb and use strings that are 9s. Anything else and the balance is out of whack, and I can't adjust the springs enough to compensate. I'm sure an experienced metal tech could get it working with other tunings and strings, but I'm not a metal tech.


Here she is:

[backwardsvoyager]

^ that's awesome. the newer Ibanez have this thing called the Zero Positioning System (ZPS) on the back that let's you finely adjust the balance of the trem to suit different tunings and string gauges, which was their answer to the problems you're describing. I found it really helpful and it was why trying a floyd tose afterwards made that feel like the worst thing ever.
Ibanez makes/have made some awesome hardware, they need to make some less-metal guitars with those trems on them.

[Gone Fission]

I hate them, but I hate most guitar design quirks from my childhood. Pain in the ass to set up and they sound weird. And if you can only afford one guitar and you break a string, you are so shit out of luck, which was a total deal breaker for me. I stumbled into a guitar with a good fulcrum trem and locking tuners and didn't look back.

[rfurtkamp]

The only one I ever liked that I played was the venerable Kahler, but they have this tendency to blow through string retainers on the bridge (necessitating a complete teardown) with heavy, heavy use.

Setting those up with 13s was an art form but I've moved on from he-man gauges.

I don't suspect any of the locking trems are really built with anything bigger than 10s in mind.

The Kahler trem in action feels more like the Jazz/Jag trem than anything else though, which is why I liked it in the day. It does hold a tune well though.

[coldbrightsunlight]

Had an Ibane with a ZR for a few years, it was a bit of a pain to string but held tuning great no matter what I did with the trem and it wasn't too difficult to change tuning. That said I get on with the jag trem a lot better because I like the action of it and restringing is 10x easier.

[Iommic Pope]

Yeah the ibanez ones are good.
Restringing isn't too bad once you get used to it.
Not really something you can do on the fly.
I've never thought they were as big a pain in the arse as everyone whinges about. If they're set up right and you don't change string gauges, they're fine.

[wafl]

Locking trems are great if you want to vibe without tuning ever.
I think they have the best control if you want to really get busy with it, which is a lot of fun but you know, a time and a place
My first guitar had the ibanez edge 3 tremolo which wasn't necessarily bad but wasn't good.
Changing strings on them is actually pretty easy as long as you know the proper method.

NSFW: show

The Method:
There are two screws that hold the spring claw in the tremolo cavity. You need to unscrew these so they are a bit farther out than where they should be. I usually go to where I have about a cm of the thread showing, but different trems have different screws. Run the string so the ball is at the tuner then cut them like five cm past the trem route. Block the trem from the back so that the trem sits flush with the body. I have used pieces of wood and even cardboard in a pinch.
Tune it
Lock it
Unblock it
When you unblock it it will go out of tune, you then screw the spring claw screws back in to the body until you get it in tune. Sometimes you can get it perfect but sometimes you need to use the fine tuners. You should then have everything in tune and the trem not angled weirdly off the body.

[mmurphy1000]

well, I suck at setting them up.

But if I pay someone to do it right then I am usually really happy with the results.
In my experience actual Floyds are more stable than licensed Floyds.

My big frustration w/ all the locking trem systems I have tried is that when you bend a note, any other notes you are fretting (or open strings) also bend out of tune. so it's great for single note bends, not so great for grabbing one note in a chord and applying heavy vibrato.

[AxAxSxS]

I love floyds. I wen't through a phase when lack of a locking tremolo system was a deal breaker. I've owned many and still have probably 6 or so. If they made them for 12 strings I'd still use them, but I digress.

Learning how to use and adjust them is key. I'd actually advise you to practice adjusting everything, be it the return spring tension to level the bridge at the tuning you've chosen, the intonation, to just putting strings on and off. The allen wrench will be your new friend, as well as a phillips if you are making a large change. also some wire snips makes things easier.

Once you get it down as to how it all works, you can easily set it to where you like it, and that is where it will stay. The fine tuners are awesome and once you discover the joys of using those, it makes normal tuners feel clunky and obsolete in comparison. I have played several shows in a row, left the guitar in the case in between, and it was perfectly in tune each time I checked it. Properly done, they are that good.

I can't speak to every system out there, but when it comes to floyds, the real ones just have a much nicer feel to them than the licensed by ones. I'd imagine that generally holds true for the other types as well. The difference between a properly set up ofr and a copy that was "assembled" and not "set up" is night and day.

Bottom line, do be ready to have to think and learn if you want to fully benefit from what these can do.

pro's- Hardly ever have to tune, incredibly smooth, total control of the range up or down.

Cons- Steeper initial learning curve, should bring at least an allen wrench to shows, not good for on the fly alt tunings. (but c'mon, nobody want's to sit there and wait while you do that anyways. bring a separate guitar.) You have to listen to people who never invested in learning about them tell everyone how hard it is to set up. It's not.

[Iommic Pope]

Bottom line, do be ready to have to think and learn if you want to fully benefit from what these can do.

pro's- Hardly ever have to tune, incredibly smooth, total control of the range up or down.

Cons- Steeper initial learning curve, should bring at least an allen wrench to shows, not good for on the fly alt tunings. (but c'mon, nobody want's to sit there and wait while you do that anyways. bring a separate guitar.) You have to listen to people who never invested in learning about them tell everyone how hard it is to set up. It's not.

Werd.

[coldbrightsunlight]

Too true. They're definitely really good once you get used to setting them up. I think the main reason I don't have one now is I don't like anything ELSE about the metal guitars that usually come with floyds.

[tuj]

I dislike Floyds and similar. In *theory* they stay in tune, but my experience has let me to find that unless you have a tech setup the guitar and always use the same strings (or do so yourself), you are always chasing correct tension everywhere. Kind of a PITA. The fine-tuners are cool, I like those, but that usually means a locking nut, which means string changes are a pain. Oh and don't forget if you break a string, you are completely screwed.

I used to play a Strat with a FR Trem and another with a Vintage style Trem I had setup floating. The Trem was a lot of fun, but it left me making constant tuning adjustments even with good quality strings that had taken an initial set. I find I like Trems better that are setup to go one-way only and have a lot of tension on them. I setup my Strats now with the bridge flush to the body and 5 springs in the Trem cavity.

[AxAxSxS]

but my experience has let me to find that unless you have a tech setup the guitar...

Gonna hafta call you out on not having much experience. You don't need a tech. Spend not much $ on a few tools and spend 20 minutes watching youtube how to vids. Yay! Now you can do every thing you think you need a tech for.

if you break a string, you are completely screwed.

Once you understand the process, it takes about the same amount of time, If you bring an allen wrench, and maybe some wire snips if you want to get fancy. But bring a shitty second guitar. It's not unaffordable, a squier or whatever you can scrounge that loosely relates to your main. Nothing kills a show like a guitarist who can't see shit in the club trying to change strings. If you can do it blindfolded in under a minute, by all means, have at it, if not, bring a spare.

I find I like Trems better that are setup to go one-way only and have a lot of tension on them. I setup my Strats now with the bridge flush to the body and 5 springs in the Trem cavity.

You have created a hardtail that you can dive with.
Not totally a bad way to go, I'd recommend you reduce the quantity of springs, and adjust with the screws that hold the claw the springs attach to. (screw them in more) 5 springs is what it takes for the 12 string bridges to lay flat. unless you use cables you don't need that many.
The 12 strings I made tremolos for I set up flat with the body, as I tend to bend up and dive down. For six strings I like to float it. both have their strong points and drawbacks, nothing feels as smooth as a balanced floating bridge though. and you can do all kinds of palm wiggles and weird shit. its fun