oh gibson, your quality control never fails to amaze

[tigerdriver]

i bought an sg classic at GC awhile back...the neck binding on the first one i played was splitting at almost every fret! the one i got had some weird black smudge on the binding, but it's on the right side so at least I don't see it when i'm playing. and for some reason, the one with the split binding was priced $50 higher.

i said to the salesman, "their quality control is notoriously bad", and he replied "huh, i never heard that". typical GC employee.

[less_cunning]

Ah, a triumvirate of bullshit. I hate hip hop/rap, I think it's a musical form and that has produced very little artistic, aesthetic, and cultural value.

ok you've lost any right to say anything ever

IDK. can you really take someone seriously that says something like that, & yet they want a Kaoss Pad & a Kaossilator ??? cuz i don't: the artisitic, aesthetic & cultural antecedents are obvious, just w/ hip-hop & the Kaoss Pad alone.

despite the rhetoric i think communarchy has a right to express his opinion.

[Communarchy]

ok you've lost any right to say anything ever

Come come now htsamurai, let's not be so absolutist. I didn't say ANY value, I said little. And when you look at the scope of the music genre, you must see where my argument comes from. Especially in reference to the art of sampling. In taking motifs, melodies, and sometimes WHOLE SONGS out of their context, how often does a rap artist succeed in making the previous piece any better than the artist originally intended? Not often, in my opinion.

I don't see the brilliance in rap music. A rap artist could gather so much more respect being a poet. And it'd probably sound better and allow them to be taken so much more seriously.

Hip hop is fuckin cool, but I'm mostly into the instrumental, DJ Shadow, DJ Krush, and RJD2 kind of vibe. Would like to find more good shit but everything I've seen around here hasn't really suited my tastes well.
My opinion.

Veterans, I agree. I can think of one notable exception to my previous statement: Rza of the Wu Tang Clan. He took samples from obscure Kung Fu pictures and classical pieces and then re-chopped them into entirely different melodies with different rhythms, taking the vibe from the original source and making an innovative piece of music. Too often times you get a lazy producer who pilfers an entire melody from an artist in order to rhyme about material excess, misogyny, and overblown tales of grandeur buttressed with silly machismo-isms. Case in point: Afrika Bambaataa, one of hip hops progenitors, biggest hit was "Planet Rock," a song where he basically just pumps the imaginary crowd up by yelling over a melody stolen from Kraftwerk's "Trans Europe Express" and where the drum track is taken from Kraftwerk's song "Numbers."

And this man is called an innovator? Afrika's label was sued by Kraftwerk later down the line. Please don't give me the tired, "well he introduced a whole new audience to Kraftwerk's music" argument because, seriously, how many know that Planet Rock is actually the bastardization of a few Kraftwerk tunes? Also, please don't tell me that Dr. Dre and Tupac's version of "California Love" is better than the original Zapp and Roger version. T-Pain and Kanye West to this day are ripping off Zapp and Roger with their use of Auto-Tune in place of a vocoder. And for every Guru and Rza there are a hundred T-Pains, Lil Jons and Soulja Boys.

IDK. can you really take someone seriously that says something like that, & yet they want a Kaoss Pad & a Kaossilator ??? cuz i don't: the artisitic, aesthetic & cultural antecedents are obvious, just w/ hip-hop & the Kaoss Pad alone.

despite the rhetoric i think communarchy has a right to express his opinion.

Less, I'm sorry for hopping all over you, I just can't stand accusations of racism being tossed about so willy-nilly. I get your point, Gibson clearly did a shitty thing. My polemic attack on hip hop was just sort of meeting sword with sword. I don't care if anyone gets enjoyment out hip hop/rap, they have every right to find entertainment any which way, but I'll stand by my personal judgment of it. And I know we are totally off topic now, so you can also jump on me for contributing to it.

But I'm going to defend my want of a Kaossilator/Kaoss Pad, and it stems far from any sort of hip hop influence. I don't find the pairing of hip hop and a kaoss pad persuasive. Synthesizers, effects and electronic instruments predate any sort of influence from hip hop; I'll point, once again, to Kraftwerk (see a common thread?) and bands like Neu! and Silver Apples. And I'm serious as a heart attack.

[less_cunning]

full disclosure: i own an Epiphone ED-100 Acoustic Guitar.

no need to apologize. it is not necessary. i apologize to you for posting those pieces about Gibson in what is obviously a pro-Gibson thread. i regret doing so. i am sorry.

but. the Kaoss Pad was/is still pretty much marketed to DJ's. w/o hip-hop production & DJ Culture, you pretty much wouldn't have the commonplaceusage of Kaoss Pads, Samplers, Pro Tools et cetera in rock & music-making in general. or loopers. none of that stuff. to where now no one bats an eyelash. hip-hop made those things "culturally" relevant. that influence is there. you cannot hide from it or say that is not there: it is ever-present & all-encompassing...

to take appropriation, pastiche & recontextualization and deem it "stealing" is merely ahistorical & lazy. it was Pablo Picasso whom said, & i paraphase: "Bad artists copy, Great artists steal." There is nothing new under the sun & almost every musical artform is "deriv" or something else & could be characterized as a whole-sale jacking of other music genres.

it would be so much easier to say, "Hey, I just don't like hip-hop."

[Communarchy]

but. the Kaoss Pad was/is still pretty much marketed to DJ's. w/o hip-hop production & DJ Culture, you pretty much wouldn't have the commonplaceusage of Kaoss Pads, Samplers, Pro Tools et cetera in rock & music-making in general. or loopers. none of that stuff. to where now no one bats an eyelash. hip-hop made those things "culturally" relevant. that influence is there. you cannot hide from it or say that is not there: it is ever-present & all-encompassing...

I suppose you are right, though, as I'm not generally apart of that scene, I can't judge or say who it is marketed towards, though I'll take your word for it. My experience with the Kaoss line comes firstly from seeing Radiohead use it and as for Pro Tools, I remember hearing Trent Reznor using the first few versions of it for make "The Fragile." But, of course, I'd be foolish to deny that samplers are pretty much ubiquitous within the hip hop scene.

to take appropriation, pastiche & recontextualization and deem it "stealing" is merely ahistorical & lazy. it was Pablo Picasso whom said, & i paraphase: "Bad artists copy, Great artists steal." There is nothing new under the sun & almost every musical artform is "deriv" or something else & could be characterized as a whole-sale jacking of other music genres.

it would be so much easier to say, "Hey, I just don't like hip-hop."

But then we wouldn't be able to have such a enjoyable argument. Now I'll make a full disclosure: I own Wu Tang, early Mobb Deep, Nas and Pharcyde albums. I won't admit that they are my most favoritestest things in my collection, but I also won't deny the artistry that is apparent in some hip hop. What I guess I was trying to point to is that I don't appreciate or enjoy the recontextualization of a lot of hip hop. Often times it is lazy, uninspired and I cannot relate to the message/vibe/mood/aesthetic it is trying to achieve. I'm referring the party, "bitches," money, power attitude that seems to be a crutch for the genre and creeps into even respectable and talented MCs and DJs' work. It's comparable to the love/relationship songs in pop and rock music I suppose.

I feel that since the turn of the century there has been a lack of innovation in the genre in which there is the party/pop side of hip hop and the old guard where one side rides the wave to mainstream stagnation and the other side can't do anything but bitch about how the new groups are ruining their music form. The same argument can be had point to the stagnation of rock music, I'm sure.

It's also very interesting to see the development of hip hop as a parallel to rock music, in a 30 year time frame. Of course you have the earliest hip hop artist at the end of the 70's, in the 80's it finds it's footing as a music genre, in the 90's it's artistic peak and now in the 00's it's stagnation and utter commercialization. Similar to the 50's as the birth of rock n' roll, the 60's as the solidification of the "rock music" genre, the 70's as rock's pinnacle, and the crap that was considered rock in the 80's. Of course, all of this is by my own assessment.

[less_cunning]

you don't have to take my word for it: a cursory glance at the Korg site will demonstrate this. & the fact that they make DJ MIXERS w/ Kaoss Pads in them???

(there also seem to be a lot of partying, bitches, money & power in government. no one seems to decry that. it's just de riguer. par for the course, as they say...)

i don't any problem at all w/ your polemics, opinions or assessments.

cheers.

[veteransdaypoppy]

Off thread-topic again, but I just get the impression that a lot of rappers just aren't listening to the music that's been made before hand. Some samples are tasteful and enjoyable, but most are trash. Just shitty tunes that can make a couple bucks.
However, the underground scene will consistently prove the noticeable MTV/Fuse/Televisioningeneral wrong. I'm sure underground hip hop is pretty sick.
Artists who actually legitimately have talent like Blackalicious (and even Beck? wtf? but, honestly, Beck is pretty fucking sick. Sampling Herbie Hancock and all.) end up getting overlooked for the more marketable things. I'm pretty sure that it's mostly left at that.

"That" being marketability > Legitimate talent.

P.S. Don't tell me that 'Broken Arrow' wasn't sick nasty. I advise you to listen to this man's rhymes.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bz326qVls[/youtube]

I still love Gibson.
And rum.

[royaltrux]

i said to the salesman, "their quality control is notoriously bad", and he replied "huh, i never heard that". typical GC employee.

Actual conversation at Guitar Center I had yesterday:

Me: "Hey, can you do me a favor?"

GC employee: "No."

Me: "Oh, I guess that's the wrong way to ask for something at guitar center."

GC: "yep."



---------------------
Me: "if I buy that amp, shouldn't it be a little cheaper because it's a floor model and it doesn't come with a box or instructions?"

GC: "Yeah, it's free. I'll just give you 100% off" (imagine snarky attitude).

[Blurillaz]

i said to the salesman, "their quality control is notoriously bad", and he replied "huh, i never heard that". typical GC employee.

Actual conversation at Guitar Center I had yesterday:

Me: "Hey, can you do me a favor?"

GC employee: "No."

Me: "Oh, I guess that's the wrong way to ask for something at guitar center."

GC: "yep."



---------------------
Me: "if I buy that amp, shouldn't it be a little cheaper because it's a floor model and it doesn't come with a box or instructions?"

GC: "Yeah, it's free. I'll just give you 100% off" (imagine snarky attitude).

[veteransdaypoppy]

Don't worry, they're just upset because they were in a hair metal band that never took off because hair metal is god-awful.

[royaltrux]

I'm just waiting for the ad in the mail that says:

This week at GUITAR CENTER:

Fuck You!!! (ps - buy our shit!)

We suck, but we're located everywhere.

At least we're not sam ash!