Low pass gate in a pedal?

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Dandolin
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Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Dandolin »

I love the sound of low pass gates in a modular synth context--rad combo of amplitude enveloping and...low pass filtering.

Recently got to thinking my early stonewalling of Shallow Water GAS was in error--I can def see using it in different ways than Meet Maude with the delay time clamped down. And in obsessively listening to Shallow Water demos I woke up to the magic the lpg was doing in the tonal mix of the Shallow Water. So, @ some point I'ma end up snagging an SW.

But in typical fashion, it made me wonder whether a dedicated lpg pedal, designed to work well with guitarish level signals, existed or could....

Anybody know of anything like that? :snax: :snax: :group:
Last edited by Dandolin on Sat May 11, 2019 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Chankgeez »

:idk: Interested. :snax: (In the Shallow Water as well.) :love:
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by lordgalvar »

MASF Tortam
I converted an NLC LPG to a guitar pedal. I used two 9v batteries as the power supply.

Running off the trigger pulses of an sq-1 (masf):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuLGKHHTSNQ[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuLGKHHTSNQ

With real envelopes (masf):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0slVESmHrs[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0slVESmHrs

NLC conversion:
-audio rate CV
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9EFR3IZG4[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO9EFR3IZG4

-LFO CV
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYEQNdmyq-M[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYEQNdmyq-M
Last edited by lordgalvar on Fri May 10, 2019 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by DRodriguez »

Low pass gates are rad.Definitely difficult to dial win for guitar since they are so percussive in the initial attack
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by adamajah »

The LPG is my favorite feature of the SW. It sent me looking for a dedicated pedal as well and after finding nothing I emailed Simon. I don't think he'll mind me posting his reply:
I don't know all the pedals but what you're looking for is some kind of
low-pass filter that has envelope following with control on the attack.
The Moog filter pedal allows this if I recall. The Shallow Water has an
attack time of about 20ms. Auto-wah's are usually band-pass filters,
just look for low-pass and short attack time.
I haven't found anything quite like it, but got an Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe in the process, which when set to Down mode is similar but more extreme.
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Dandolin »

Woot :joy: thanks for the replies :group:
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by goroth »

adamajah wrote:The LPG is my favorite feature of the SW. It sent me looking for a dedicated pedal as well and after finding nothing I emailed Simon. I don't think he'll mind me posting his reply:
I don't know all the pedals but what you're looking for is some kind of
low-pass filter that has envelope following with control on the attack.
The Moog filter pedal allows this if I recall. The Shallow Water has an
attack time of about 20ms. Auto-wah's are usually band-pass filters,
just look for low-pass and short attack time.
I haven't found anything quite like it, but got an Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe in the process, which when set to Down mode is similar but more extreme.
Tell me more about how you are using the LPG on the SW. I set it to max and forget about it, which is obviously missing the point.
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Dandolin »

^^ :snax:
Remain convinced I need an SW

DRod--I agree--lpgs shine with percussive sounds :zen:
LG-- :joy: awesome, inspiring stuff! :wizard: Def interested in Tortam, but playing around with/re-housing a cheap euro lpg is sure to be a rewarding and educational experience :zippy: As usual, so much food for thought in your posts....

Adamajah--really appreciate your input! :)* A low pass filter w/ a 20ms envelope attack time seems very promising. Also, hadn't thought about the downwards sweep. :idea:
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by lordgalvar »

Might be something to try? I would, but I don't have the dongle to to fandangle it into the Roland widget. Headphone adapters :grumpy:
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Dandolin »

Yaz--definitely worth a go, virtual or no :love:
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by adamajah »

goroth wrote:
adamajah wrote:The LPG is my favorite feature of the SW. It sent me looking for a dedicated pedal as well and after finding nothing I emailed Simon. I don't think he'll mind me posting his reply:
I don't know all the pedals but what you're looking for is some kind of
low-pass filter that has envelope following with control on the attack.
The Moog filter pedal allows this if I recall. The Shallow Water has an
attack time of about 20ms. Auto-wah's are usually band-pass filters,
just look for low-pass and short attack time.
I haven't found anything quite like it, but got an Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe in the process, which when set to Down mode is similar but more extreme.
Tell me more about how you are using the LPG on the SW. I set it to max and forget about it, which is obviously missing the point.
I turn Mix to 100% wet, and then tune the LPG until it reacts to plucking the guitar strings like an envelope filter. With some warble dialed in it creates a beautiful murkiness.
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by cbm »

As a long-time Buchla fan, I would love to see something like an advanced Vox Repeat Percussion implemented with a LPG, simple AR envelope, and clock source. I've patched this on my Buchla and it's really fun.

LPGs sound good with resonance as well.
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Dandolin »

AR envelope and clock source would def be cool. Any other features folks would like to see in a dream lpg pedal?

I mean, I love getting lost setting up an lpg and envelope and then patching in logic and clock div/mult/ratcheterama (Doepfer A-160-5 and Dwrfcrft YEP ftw!), but I suppose sanity must prevail, at least somewhat.... I suppose some options for external AR triggering and, yeah, a resonance function....

:snax: :snax:
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by Chankgeez »

Still not a pedal, but there's some purple on this LPG:

https://reverb.com/item/22908100-mystic ... ate-module

Image

:love: :snax: :idk:
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…...........................…
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Re: Low pass gate in a pedal?

Post by lordgalvar »

After messing around with LPGs and guitar a bit more (with more focus), I don't know of the end result is different enough from the OTA style, vactrol based envelope filters like the Mutron or Maxon.

With the Mutron and Maxon, you have the fingers and string decay doing the VCA part. With the MASF, you have the envelope follower doing the same thing but usually it will be close enough to natural decay. The resonance and cutoff decay is similar enough between the two styles (and probably varies depending on vactrol or led/ldr setup).

I think the only way that a traditional LPG would be worth the effort as a guitar envelope filter style effect would be to have an edge sharpener with a comparator triggering an AR envelope (like a function generator) with times shorter than the sustain for guitar. CV control over the rise/fall times would give some dynamic variety. I think an addition like the damp control or the strike from make noise would be good because it would either give you more variety with automated CV or the ability to just run a trigger in (like an SQ-1). Klang off a RYO Aperture would work too.

Pairing the LPG with a pedal setup like the Malekko Sneak Attack would be pretty good though I think it would need additional CV control.

The emulations in the Roland Aria were just too noisy without converting to modular levels (just use an LPG at that point). The setup ended up just sounding like a really noisy and terrible maxon.

With an EXP pedal, I think, if one had the discipline, some nice LPG sweeps could be had but I don't know if feet can move fast enough to really get that ping/strike sound with quick attack and quick decay (the kind of bongo sound).

One great use for the LPG in a guitar context is sidechaining. Take the CV out of an envelope filter or run a comparator like the Bastl klik in parallel to control another signal like a radio or samples. It could also be used like a resonant noise gate for a noisy parallel signal or gated reverbs/short delays. It could really shine in a parallel path style pedal board or with some stereo stuff.

As for the MASF Tortam, the one I have is too quick on the response to really use just with a trigger generator. It's pretty barebones and needs some planning to really work. There really has to be some kind of envelope generator, LFO, or some CV around for it to really be worth it and usually pedals with CV envelope followers are usually either synth or filter pedals that kind of make the Tortam redundant. It's excellent at integrating in drone machines into a modular environment or sidechaining off another signal though.

LPGs would be useful to tame a noisy carrier signal on a ringmod when used with an envelope follower and add little variety to the setup too. (Had to mention ring mod or it wouldn't be me). They do make fun little tremolos when used with an LFO. I kind of think of LPGs as utilities instead of that magic tone or something providing that missing "mojo". It's a solid building block.

I think there is room in guitar land for a robust LPG gate setup that is more robust out of the box.

Here are some high hats triggering an envelope follower that opens the low pass gate (MASF Tortam). The transistor radio is running through the Tortam to the delay.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XC1MQ0-vc8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XC1MQ0-vc8
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