recommend me a drum machine

[decomposing]

have you messed with any before? I had an Akai XR20 and absolutely hated the menu diving necessary. from what I know about the SR-16, it seems the same. tried a bunch of app based ones, but still felt clunky. I recently got a TR-8 and am just in love with how forward it is. it's loaded with tricks and you can customize the shit out of the kits. it feels and is meant to be played like an instrument, so if you're just looking to program for backing tracks or play with pads you should try one of the aforementioned. some people *click* with them from the get go, but I became frustrated quickly.. only thing that bothers me about the TR-8 is you can't copy patterns from A->B. should be fixed soon

Can you create whole songs with multiple patterns with the TR-8?

I don't think you can, unfortunately. you have to queue them manually. I ended up returning my TR-8 funny enough.. ruiner inspired me to go for a machinedrum or octatrack I've been watching videos all day like

Go with the Machinedrum so we can learn together and talk about it!

I still think its worth buying an SR-16. I found one on my local Craigslist for $60 with two footswitches. ZZsounds has them for $100. With MIDI, this would be complimentary to the machinedrum. It does have a learning curve since its old school menu driven, but it's not too bad. The SR-16 is a fascinating piece of equipment because it is a product that seems like it should have been discontinued over a decade ago but it's still in production. People are still buying them. I love the idea of not changing/discontinuing something people really like. Here are two, Alesis-produced tutorials:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYdYTR_FAqM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZJjL0JrLrg[/youtube]

Craig Anderton is doing the tutorial. He, of course, is a fuzz legend. He designed the Tube-like fuzz circuit that appeared in a book, electronic projects for musicians which came out in the early 80s/late 70s. The cirucuit is the basis of many CMOS fuzz pedals. I believe the Way Huge Red Llama is nearly an identical replica.

Again, this SR-16 is super feature-rich ...

I've been needing a drum machine and have given up on software because it spoils it for me
after reading reviews, and fucking godflesh uses it,
been after the sr-16 because I read the newer hr-16 is more confusing on how you program
anybody use both?

and how are people liking the volca beats for a simple analog drum sequencer?
think they could compliment each other

[JereFuzz]

have you messed with any before? I had an Akai XR20 and absolutely hated the menu diving necessary. from what I know about the SR-16, it seems the same. tried a bunch of app based ones, but still felt clunky. I recently got a TR-8 and am just in love with how forward it is. it's loaded with tricks and you can customize the shit out of the kits. it feels and is meant to be played like an instrument, so if you're just looking to program for backing tracks or play with pads you should try one of the aforementioned. some people *click* with them from the get go, but I became frustrated quickly.. only thing that bothers me about the TR-8 is you can't copy patterns from A->B. should be fixed soon

Can you create whole songs with multiple patterns with the TR-8?

I don't think you can, unfortunately. you have to queue them manually. I ended up returning my TR-8 funny enough.. ruiner inspired me to go for a machinedrum or octatrack I've been watching videos all day like

Go with the Machinedrum so we can learn together and talk about it!

I still think its worth buying an SR-16. I found one on my local Craigslist for $60 with two footswitches. ZZsounds has them for $100. With MIDI, this would be complimentary to the machinedrum. It does have a learning curve since its old school menu driven, but it's not too bad. The SR-16 is a fascinating piece of equipment because it is a product that seems like it should have been discontinued over a decade ago but it's still in production. People are still buying them. I love the idea of not changing/discontinuing something people really like. Here are two, Alesis-produced tutorials:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYdYTR_FAqM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZJjL0JrLrg[/youtube]

Craig Anderton is doing the tutorial. He, of course, is a fuzz legend. He designed the Tube-like fuzz circuit that appeared in a book, electronic projects for musicians which came out in the early 80s/late 70s. The cirucuit is the basis of many CMOS fuzz pedals. I believe the Way Huge Red Llama is nearly an identical replica.

Again, this SR-16 is super feature-rich ...

I've been needing a drum machine and have given up on software because it spoils it for me
after reading reviews, and fucking godflesh uses it,
been after the sr-16 because I read the newer hr-16 is more confusing on how you program
anybody use both?

and how are people liking the volca beats for a simple analog drum sequencer?
think they could compliment each other

The version after SR-16 is the SR-18, not HR-16. The HR-16 is the Alesis drum machine BEFORE the SR-16. I haven't tried the SR-18 but the SR-16 is ubiquitous and can be found cheap new/used. You can get it for $100 new. Therer are two versions of the SR-16, a 16-bit version and another is a 24-bit version. You'll know which one you are buying based on what's on the front face. I'd say try and pick up an SR-16 from Craigslist for less than $60, try it out and pick up another machine for versatility (make sure it has MIDI).

AS for the Volca Beats, it's great. Fun and easy to use though much more limited than the SR-16. it has an MIDI in so you can sync both the SR-16 and the Volca beats. But you can't do the reverse since the Volca beats has no MIDI out.

[JereFuzz]

have you messed with any before? I had an Akai XR20 and absolutely hated the menu diving necessary. from what I know about the SR-16, it seems the same. tried a bunch of app based ones, but still felt clunky. I recently got a TR-8 and am just in love with how forward it is. it's loaded with tricks and you can customize the shit out of the kits. it feels and is meant to be played like an instrument, so if you're just looking to program for backing tracks or play with pads you should try one of the aforementioned. some people *click* with them from the get go, but I became frustrated quickly.. only thing that bothers me about the TR-8 is you can't copy patterns from A->B. should be fixed soon

Can you create whole songs with multiple patterns with the TR-8?

I don't think you can, unfortunately. you have to queue them manually. I ended up returning my TR-8 funny enough.. ruiner inspired me to go for a machinedrum or octatrack I've been watching videos all day like

Go with the Machinedrum so we can learn together and talk about it!

I still think its worth buying an SR-16. I found one on my local Craigslist for $60 with two footswitches. ZZsounds has them for $100. With MIDI, this would be complimentary to the machinedrum. It does have a learning curve since its old school menu driven, but it's not too bad. The SR-16 is a fascinating piece of equipment because it is a product that seems like it should have been discontinued over a decade ago but it's still in production. People are still buying them. I love the idea of not changing/discontinuing something people really like. Here are two, Alesis-produced tutorials:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYdYTR_FAqM[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZJjL0JrLrg[/youtube]

Craig Anderton is doing the tutorial. He, of course, is a fuzz legend. He designed the Tube-like fuzz circuit that appeared in a book, electronic projects for musicians which came out in the early 80s/late 70s. The cirucuit is the basis of many CMOS fuzz pedals. I believe the Way Huge Red Llama is nearly an identical replica.

Again, this SR-16 is super feature-rich ...

I've been needing a drum machine and have given up on software because it spoils it for me
after reading reviews, and fucking godflesh uses it,
been after the sr-16 because I read the newer hr-16 is more confusing on how you program
anybody use both?

and how are people liking the volca beats for a simple analog drum sequencer?
think they could compliment each other

BTW, watch the vids, you'll get a nice intro into the SR-16 before/if you buy ...

[decomposing]

cool thanks for the info
any preference on bit version?
16 bit is more crunchy and lofi probably yeah
can't watch the vids right now

[JereFuzz]

cool thanks for the info
any preference on bit version?
16 bit is more crunchy and lofi probably yeah
can't watch the vids right now

I haven't A/B'd them. But i'd go with the 24 if available 'cause you never know if you want to have a more hi-fi sound. You can always, as noted before, use a mixer with an FX loop to add an EQ filter or some other filter to make it sound more lo-fi. I have the ZMX862 6-Channel 2-Bus Mixer which has an fx send and return so that you can mix in fx you are choosing. Also, if you pick up, say, two of these units together one can be a master and the other slave via MIDI so you can get creative with rhythm compositions. I'm strongly considering getting another SR-16 so I can "do more".

[resincum]

Go with the Machinedrum so we can learn together and talk about it!

did you go the UW+ route?

I did. Should be here Monday or Tuesday

rad. I ended up re purchasing a tr-8 for a bit cheaper and plan to get an octatrack in a couple of weeks the DM seems fucking amazing, though. stoked to hear what you think of it & what you do with it

[modernage]

I got rid of my hardware stuff and have Maschine now, which was the worst decision I've made (personally) for music.

Maschine is easy to use, powerful, and is set up for live performing but I've never ever had so many problems with a program before. I've probably installed and uninstalled the program over 40 times because this is NIs 'tech support' solution to everything it seems. If you have a problem with some of their other stuff with it like Kontakt, and god forbid Komplete...you want to eat a bullet. Komplete takes 8 hours to install.
Something else thats gone awry with it is that the controller has not been very durable, the knobs used for truncating samples wore out and a couple pads don't function very well anymore even though I never used it as a performance tool. Even if those didn't exist, it's just not nearly as much fun or as inspirational to use (for me!)

The sounds are good with Native Instruments stuff but computer stuff is a bummer in that it presents so many options, and its so powerful, you get lost just clicking a mouse a billion times and nothing seems to be very satisfying compared to tweaking knobs. I could sit at my monomachine and machinedrum for hours and hours just exploring the more limited options hardware stuff presents and making stuff that felt good to make. Having hardware stuff kind of presents a box of options. Software is like being lost in a cloud, its limitless but mushy, foggy. Having some boundaries to push on is much more satisfying.

The 'drawback' to the Elektron gear is it takes tweaking after to get really big sounds..by that I mean right out of the box into a mixer/amp/interface, they don't present a strongly as some other stuff. The sounds out of the MPC1000 I had were extremely punchy, they're not so much with the Elektron stuff, but for making big washes of ambient sounds and grooves, I think the thinner sounds would be a positive characteristic instead of a negative one.

This is really depressing. I had my heart set on getting a Maschine because it's in my price range and I've heard nothing but good things about it. It seemed less complicated than Elektron stuff.

Keep in mind that the issues repoman had with the program, may or may not be an issue for you. I think a little bit of context could be helpful here, like what OS was it installed on, using it as standalone or within a DAW, etc. Because if someone is using a computer running Windows having problems with hardware drivers, it might be irrelevant for another person that has a Mac. You know what I mean? I will say that bad customer service can be a real deal breaker. I've had absolutely zero problems on the software (in standalone or inside Pro Tools) or hardware (still using an MK1 Maschine) side though. I've been running Komplete Ultimate 8 and 10 on a 6 year old iMac that has ran everything from OSX Snow Leopard to El Capitan. Also, have migrated my whole studio setup to a new Mac Pro a little over a month ago with no problems at this point in time. The Komplete install, and subsequent upgrades, process is an all day event though, like repoman was saying.

I can't comment on customer support since I haven't had a need for them yet. I usually just hit up the forums when I have a problem that needs fixing anyways. My cynical nature just assumes everyone's customer support will be less than optimal. Even if it's just the fact that I can usually hunt down the solution before I hear back from someone leads me to DIM (do it myself?). But that certainly can be a drawback, and reason to look at other options, if you need to know that you can rely on good customer support when you need it.

I also agree that presets are a big time waster, and inspiration killer, for me as well. When I made the decision that it was important to me to work Maschine into my workflow it was imperative that I went through all the kits, in order to add those that I would use on a regular basis to my favorites. Since then I have also added user created kits to the list in order to better achieve the sounds I need, and streamline the process even more. I pretty much ignore all the others at this point. I need some limitations, or I will never get anything done. Another thing to consider is that the Maschine 2 software now includes drum synths that allow you to program your own sounds as you would on an analog drum machine, further distancing you from being chained to the presets list and bringing you closer to the Machinedrum realm. I don't have any experience with the drum synths yet, but I'll need to upgrade to Maschine 2 in the next month or so since v1 doesn't have an AAX version, and Pro Tools 12 no longer allows RTAS plugins.

I just wanted to include my experience in order to add balance to the argument. It could still be a good option for you.

[Inconuucl]

I always trash all included presets from my hardware stuff, sooner or later.

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

rad. I ended up re purchasing a tr-8 for a bit cheaper and plan to get an octatrack in a couple of weeks the DM seems fucking amazing, though. stoked to hear what you think of it & what you do with it

yo if u get the OT i have a ton of sample chains (mostly drums, some fx, synth shots , misc.) i made for it, i would gladly share
also if u do, would suggest find and read merlin's octatrack guide. very helpful guy right there. the OT is a wild one

[Inconuucl]

Is it really hardware Ableton as some people seem to claim?

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

Is it really hardware Ableton as some people seem to claim?

its probably about as close as ur gunna get today.

fair warning it is muy heady machine.

[crochambeau]

Ugh, you guys are bad for my drum machine habit, I was staying out of this thread once it was clear the MPC was not a goto. MPC has been a glory to work with in my world, though mine's something of a geezer at this point.

Anyway: in regards to the Alesis SR-16, which, once you discount the Mattel Synsonics, was my first drum machine... for which I hold a somewhat misplaced sentimentality.. were the samples re-recorded for the 24 bit (ie: are the sounds different?) I'm pretty sure the source files for the first generation 16 bit machine were 16 bit, so upsampling that is sort of beyond the point of diminishing returns.

Or is the 24 bit talk about the 18?

cool thanks for the info
any preference on bit version?
16 bit is more crunchy and lofi probably yeah
can't watch the vids right now

If you want crunchy, go with the HR. It's got a somewhat meaner, raw sound to my ear (though to be fair, I have not A/B'd the two, and rawness might be my own advancement in being able to record/mix, I sold my SR-16 twenty years ago). HR does not have a couple programming perks of the SR, what I miss the most is the fill section from A to B part (or vice versa), in that you can do very articulate things with the programming of the fill bridge and being able to cut to that at any point in a measure in song mode is something none of the other machines from that era even got close to. I found it a massively useful function for some stuff.

[sergiomunoz74]

Is it really hardware Ableton as some people seem to claim?

Not even close, every time someone says that I really think of how anyone could say that. Ableton does a lot of things, while an octatrack can do some of those things, it's extremely limited in it's scope and pretty obtuse in a lot of ways I could never wrap myself around. It took 3 hours to get something recorded consistently and then trying to use it as a looper was just as tough. I bought it hoping to replace a good amount of things like loopers and my small mixer. Instead I just left myself with frustration when I would have to reference the manual for a forgotten button press combo.

I always felt if you have the time to learn ableton and learn it well, it will do more good than trying to remember the octatrack. I understand aversion to computers but in the end nothing replaces a a good daw for sampler type stuff. That's my opinion though, I feel like I see so many people using the octatrack well that it boggles me. MPC's and Electribes are my jam, although now-a-days all my drums are from a 606 and a Nord Modular G2.

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

Is it really hardware Ableton as some people seem to claim?

Not even close, every time someone says that I really think of how anyone could say that. Ableton does a lot of things, while an octatrack can do some of those things, it's extremely limited in it's scope and pretty obtuse in a lot of ways I could never wrap myself around. It took 3 hours to get something recordede\ consistently and then trying to use it as a looper was just as tough. I bought it hoping to replace a good amount of things like loopers and my small mixer. Instead I just left myself with frustration when I would have to reference the manual for a forgotten button press combo.

I always felt if you have the time to learn ableton and learn it well, it will do more good than trying to remember the octatrack. I understand aversion to computers but in the end nothing replaces a a good daw for sampler type stuff. That's my opinion though, I feel like I see so many people using the octatrack well that it boggles me. MPC's and Electribes are my jam, although now-a-days all my drums are from a 606 and a Nord Modular G2.

pretty much the same reasons i sold mine. in some ways it was a dream. in others it was a rock.
i think its more like realtime warping / time stretch, loops all in time type of thing that gets the ableton comparisons.
but i could see the overall similarities if you asked me to

[JereFuzz]

Ugh, you guys are bad for my drum machine habit, I was staying out of this thread once it was clear the MPC was not a goto. MPC has been a glory to work with in my world, though mine's something of a geezer at this point.

Anyway: in regards to the Alesis SR-16, which, once you discount the Mattel Synsonics, was my first drum machine... for which I hold a somewhat misplaced sentimentality.. were the samples re-recorded for the 24 bit (ie: are the sounds different?) I'm pretty sure the source files for the first generation 16 bit machine were 16 bit, so upsampling that is sort of beyond the point of diminishing returns.

Or is the 24 bit talk about the 18?

cool thanks for the info
any preference on bit version?
16 bit is more crunchy and lofi probably yeah
can't watch the vids right now

If you want crunchy, go with the HR. It's got a somewhat meaner, raw sound to my ear (though to be fair, I have not A/B'd the two, and rawness might be my own advancement in being able to record/mix, I sold my SR-16 twenty years ago). HR does not have a couple programming perks of the SR, what I miss the most is the fill section from A to B part (or vice versa), in that you can do very articulate things with the programming of the fill bridge and being able to cut to that at any point in a measure in song mode is something none of the other machines from that era even got close to. I found it a massively useful function for some stuff.

The SR-16 has had 24-bit samples for a while now. If you do an ebay search you can see that some are labeled as 16-bit while others are labeled as 24-bit. The workflow is great. Creating a pattern, with an A and B bank, along with an A and B fill, will alone allow you to create some nice impromptu beats that you can toggle between A and B (with the accompanying fill) using a footswitch. You can also stop/start with a separate footswitch.