Talk to me about piezo mics

[ibarakishi]

Didn't see a specific thread for this yet. looking to get some to do some things/projects with traditional thai acoustic instruments this year with amps and pedals. I have been looking around and also already asked about one for my phin in the guitar section of ILF with pretty limited response. Thought i would ask again here. friendship i think recommended the barcus berry mics which runs about 40 or so USD and don't need a preamp which look great. There are a lot of other cheaper options online too, so i thought i would ask what everyone uses, what they use it with, and how they like it. Also what is the sound quality difference between different brands/price ranges. It would be great if i didn't have to use a preamp for it as well, but if you use one, which ones have you tried and liked/disliked? Any info would be great, as i can't test or try these in person over here.

[ibarakishi]

the hunt continues...

[resincum]

they're simple to make if you're capable. I've found a bunch of piezos in kid toys. you just need some wire, soldering iron and a jack.

I had one of these for a year or so; I still have it but the piezo part ripped off during a performance (I wasn't being gentle with it). it worked great for anything. acoustic guitar, chains, metal stuff.. https://www.ebay.com/i/182327339874?chn=ps you shouldn't need a dedicated preamp if your mixer can boost or if you run it into your pedals. I used a mini to sculpt the tone of it

[Chankgeez]

Have you considered just getting an electric phin?

That's what this guy seems to be using & it sounds pretty good:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNaCXFl3iw[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNaCXFl3iw

[ibarakishi]

they're simple to make if you're capable. I've found a bunch of piezos in kid toys. you just need some wire, soldering iron and a jack.

I had one of these for a year or so; I still have it but the piezo part ripped off during a performance (I wasn't being gentle with it). it worked great for anything. acoustic guitar, chains, metal stuff.. https://www.ebay.com/i/182327339874?chn=ps you shouldn't need a dedicated preamp if your mixer can boost or if you run it into your pedals. I used a mini to sculpt the tone of it

thanks resincum, this is good to know. I mainly wanted to hear real life experiences with things people have used and how they used them, so this really helps me out a lot. I would most likely be using my driving notion to raise it up in volume and sculpt it. Do you find you have to boost it quite a bit or is it fairly subtle?

Have you considered just getting an electric phin?

That's what this guy seems to be using & it sounds pretty good:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNaCXFl3iw[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exNaCXFl3iw

Yeah i will eventually buy an electric one too (they sound great), but the resonance is completely different with the acoustic ones vs. electric. i am also using the phin simply as a sort of test run for working with other acoustic instruments down the road also. I already have micing them under control and figured out, but with piezos to connect into effects and amps for further ideas, i am not familiar with.

[Invisible Man]

I’ve used a piezo mic for live banjo performances. I think it was $8–wired to a 3.5mm jack, I think. Sounded good, though banjos are prone to feedback for obvious reasons.

I’ll second resin’s comment, though. There’s really no reason I know of to be spendy, as they’re very simple. I bought a bag of Chinese mics (maybe 20?) for around 10USD. Just solder them to a cheap cable. I made triggers out of them for my drum-controlled Eurorack setup, but you could definitely hack an xlr or instrument cable into a mic. If you want fidelity, you’re probably barking up the wrong tree...these things are great for stunt micing and strange effects, I think. You asked about drum mics in another thread: try getting a room mic or two mixed with overdriven piezos mounted direct to drums. It’s wild.

[oldangelmidnight]

Simon the Magpie might have some info in his video series. It seems like he uses a lot of them in his stuff.

[ibarakishi]

I’ve used a piezo mic for live banjo performances. I think it was $8–wired to a 3.5mm jack, I think. Sounded good, though banjos are prone to feedback for obvious reasons.

I’ll second resin’s comment, though. There’s really no reason I know of to be spendy, as they’re very simple. I bought a bag of Chinese mics (maybe 20?) for around 10USD. Just solder them to a cheap cable. I made triggers out of them for my drum-controlled Eurorack setup, but you could definitely hack an xlr or instrument cable into a mic. If you want fidelity, you’re probably barking up the wrong tree...these things are great for stunt micing and strange effects, I think. You asked about drum mics in another thread: try getting a room mic or two mixed with overdriven piezos mounted direct to drums. It’s wild.

Thanks IM, you are actually kind of reading my mind because that is exactly what i am planning on experimenting with now that i will be moving to a new place in the next few months. The top floor of the building is old traditional wood and is basically just one large open floor. I have never had an open space like this to record before, so i am really excited to record with room mics and a piezo in these acoustic instruments.

As for fidelity, i could really care less about that so long as there isn't huge noise issues (hiss, hum, ect.). Feedback is okay too and not a huge concern for me. For cost, i really don't see a reason now to go with something that is cheaper at this point after all of your suggestions and resincum, so thanks for that

Simon the Magpie might have some info in his video series. It seems like he uses a lot of them in his stuff.

i forgot he did stuff like that too, i will have to look and see. Thanks for the info

[the raytownian]

I recently learned about an instrument called the daxophone. I've become obsessed with the instrument, and with trying to concoct a plan for how to build my own. Anyway, I've read that the guy who invented the daxophone used small, cheap, circular piezos in them. I imagine he also used a nice preamp (i.e., Barcus-Berry), but the piezo elements themselves are not nearly as important as good element placement and a quality preamplifier:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8dG8adbOXQ[/youtube]

I'm not sure what this is worth, but, until recently, I'd only ever scavenged piezos out of toys, watches and other small electronics. About a month ago, I ordered a couple of bags of cheap piezos from China, though. They're all practically interchangeable, at least in my experience. Any audible differences are negligible to my ears. Hardly "hi-fi", but I have always gotten good enough results for my purposes using pedals. I use the clean boost on the Boss FZ-2 a lot for mic sources. Bear in mind, though, that my whole setup is cobbled together and sounds a bit like crap. I am not sure how much of my less-than-studio-perfect sound comes from using pedals for preamps, and how much of it is just my whole setup (poor acoustics/room insulation, dirty power lines, cheap cables, cheap monitors, cheap everything). All the same, I get serviceable results recording contact mic'd shaker boxes and pieces of metal the way I do.

One handy thing about the Chinese piezos is that they came pre-wired, which cuts out a lot of the prep work. I've been experimenting with ways to heavily reinforce them, and I've found that superglue works well to lock down the solder connections, especially if you super glue some of the excess wiring around the brass edge of the element, keeping the wire well anchored, but with enough slack wire to go off the edge. Some acrylic paint over the back (or just about any kind of glue or insulating tape) helps insulate the ceramic, both to protect it, and to reduce the likelihood of buzzing.

This may not be a revelation to most, but I only learned of it this morning, while reading about the daxophone: You can buy graphite lacquers/paints, which may do a lot of good for reducing hum/buzz if you spray a layer of it on the ceramic side of a piezo (A poorly insulated element can buzz when your fingers come in contact with the ceramic disc).

[lumena]

I haven t used piezos but I have two that I may use soon.
https://www.cigarboxguitar.com/knowledg ... -mounting/
There are a few articles here that have a bit of useful info.

[ibarakishi]

this is what i was hoping this thread would become, thanks for everyone helping out and sharing info. Keep it coming

[Chankgeez]

the guy who invented the daxophone

Hans Reichel?

[the raytownian]

Ja.

[Invisible Man]

Good idea with the glue. I’ve had a couple fail on me because they can’t handle any strain...I also bought the pre-wired ones.

And if you have a big space, that sounds awesome, ibarakishi. Now you can get gross or interesting textures from surface-mounted mics and mix them low with the larger room sound. That’s my dream, but I’m working with a very small room.

[PeterBregman]

I just ordered one of the "standard" contact mics from here the other day: https://jezrileyfrench.co.uk/ordering-page.php It's going to take a few weeks, but I'm excited for it. The samples seem to sound better than experiments I've done with cheap DIY piezos.