Touring: How Important is a BIG LOUD AMP

[Pop]

Bass players and guitar players who tour small to medium-sized venues with good professional sound systems:

How important is a big ass amplifier setup? I've toured as a guitar player and have been fine with my tweed Blues Deluxe, which is my favorite sounding guitar amp. I'll soon be touring as a bass player and I'm wondering how important it is to have an amp that's louder than 100W.

Is it more of a tone preference thing? The other night I played through a sweet vintage Fender Bassman amp and cab (which belonged to the touring band), but it was in the tiniest bar ever and while it sounded fantastic, it was way large and loud.

Should I look for a tinier tube amp or would that be a useless quest? Or should I stick with my louder solid state and rely on my Sansamp for a bit of tube tone?

Thanks.

[space6oy]

one of my favorite local bands here in cbus (who do tour) haul around two ridiculously big bass rigs and they know when they play venues like mine straight up they don't need to be run through systems. (which they are very uncommonly smart about. most of the time guys w/ large stacks want to get mic'd and checked and then don't know it that they aren't run through the mains anyway...)

another band i'm friends w/ just uses two small combos for guitar & bass, totally loud enough, they're happy w/ how it sounds.

just depends on what you're wanting to get from it / how you want to look, really.

sound guys care about the volume coming out, not the setup itself. you're the one who gets to haul what you choose.

some audiences do totally hate bands who're too loud though. part of why i provide free earplugs.

[potatofarmer]

I've been touring recently on bass in a 3-piece, playing small and medium venues. Generally if you're getting DI'ed or mic'ed it doesn't matter, but there have been a decent number of venues where the PA is malfunctioning, or only can handle vocals. What you need really depends on your drummer. I'm running 250W into a 212 (as well as a 30W guitar combo for dirt) and it's been more than enough, but our drummer is fairly quiet.

Also depends on what cabs you can fit in the van. If you can take a pair of 410s or a 215 or something I could see a 100W amp working fine. I tend to like deep deep bass so I prefer to have the loudness and not need it than vice versa. So that either means extra watts or extra speaker cones.

[Dungus]

Not very, if you feel you're too loud, you probably should look into downsizing. ^ Depends on whether the venue has a decent PA and/or how many drummers you play with, of course. A lot of small venues will just do vocal PAs, then you can be a little fucked. I used to tour with the most ridiculously loud 1959 SLP and got told to turn down constantly, even in massive arenas and at festivals. Fuck those guys I WANT TO BLOW EVERYONE UP. As long as you're loud enough to get the amp pumping and not have to destroy the sound guy's precious monitors to be able to hear yourself, any good amp will do, even if that means getting something smaller/more pathetic/that doesn't look metal enough/makes you feel like a dweeb.

[bigchiefbc]

My cover band doesn't tour, but we play out 2-3 times per month, and my bass rig only consists of a 100W amp and a 4x10. We have our own sound system that we bring with us, and my bass gets mic'd and run through the mains and subs, so this is plenty. My amp is basically just my on-stage monitor, so it just needs to be loud enough for me and the guitarist to hear over the drums on stage. I don't like to be blisteringly loud on stage, because it makes hearing the other instruments basically impossible, and also makes backing vocals impossible as well.

[BoatRich]

In one of my bands massive stage volume is crucial because I'm the solo melody instrument and want to hear myself wherever I am on stage. In the other, were a bit quieter but I still run a 215+V4 for bass, the guitarist has a 410 blues deluxe, and the violin goes through a '65 bandmaster on a thiele design 110

[rfurtkamp]

If good professional sound system, play whatever you want. You'll be absolutely at the mercy of the sound guy though.

That said, I played anywhere up to the medium-sized venues in Chicago and elsewhere back in the day (1-2k capacity) with much poorer FoH systems that most places have today even at the low end.

A venerable BF Bassman biased to stay clean until it blew up or shut off for heat (they were a hundred bucks a pop then!) and a high-efficiency JBL 1x15 loaded cab got me through anywhere. I rarely had to turn it above 2.

Admittedly I had the world's most ridiculous line-level plus preamp boost in the form of a Space Echo's switchable output section on tap as well, but...

Later I moved to having a Jazz Chorus with it but it wasn't because of volume, I just learned to love stereo amp stuff hardcore for layering.

Will also depend on the band, genre, etc hardcore. What I showed up with was looked at with horror by most sound guys - they were used to folks with half stacks who couldn't *not* turn them to 10 and wail.

Smaller clubs they'd usually mic but just let the thing fly with little if any in the mix.

I remember one club show when we thought the Lounge Ax in Chicago was done for and played the closing festivities. I'd just changed tubes on the Bassman, did soundcheck, and the sound guy threw up his hands in disgust when I turned it to three.

I checked volume with a loop on the sample+hold with an admittedly mostly empty place and it was blistering. I used to measure my volume by reaching down to the cab and feeling for SPL.

[Dowi]

I have been touring in Italy regularly since 6/7 years ago, then i started to play outside a couple of weeks in EU last year and another one a couple of months ago. Same 100W+ 4x12cab guitar stack everywhere, but when it comes to stage and loudness it really depends on a lot of things.
It sounds obvious but room size is definitely the first thing will force you to reduce the volume, bigger rooms have a bigger PA and because of stage sound response you won't have to turn your amp to 11 to be heard, BUT it is also in the bigger rooms that you can blow your amp as loud as you can for the very same reason. Smaller venues most of the times require quiter volumes, but if you need to get your valves on fire you can always turn your cab backwards and having it mic'd properly. Yes, you don't fell anymore the punch of volume in your back, but most of the times it will do the job for the audience.
I thinked about downsizing a lot, and tried a few amps before deciding that downsizing was not the solution for the kind of stuff that i play mostly due to the sound "fatness" i need. One thing you can do to have the same general sound perception is to buy less efficient speakers/cab, in that way you can make the amp work a bit more without getting so loud - actually this it's something i'm currently up to, just have to gather a few buck for the new cab.

(Anyway if a venue is used to have loud volumes and gives free earplugs at the entrance you don't have to worry about anything.)

now i have switched to a 50W amp that is probably 3times louder than my previous one

[Pop]

Cool. Thanks everyone.

Seems to be about a 50/50/50 split on what works the best.

I suppose it's a matter of tone vs. convenience... not so much volume vs. convenience.

The Acoustic 100W I use was sooooooooooo loud on stage the other night that I could barely hear anything else. I turned it down quite a bit and it was a little better. But still fucking loud. It will probably do. It's interesting how the Acoustic 100W seems to get about twice as loud as the Ampeg 100W I have. Both solid state combos.

Does anyone here use a Sansamp for bass tones? Not sure if those are highly-regarded or just kinda looked at as unnecessary icing on an already frosted cake.


THOSNKA

[rustywire]

Caveat: I am [currently] not a touring musician.
To echo the sentiment of others who've already responded...it really depends on what style of music you play, where you play, how you play etc...and matching the right cab with the right amp is more important than a BIG LOUD AMP in a vacuum. As it was mentioned *downgrading to a 50w amp from 100w* produced 3x louder results for Dowi.
I feel like a Bassman head + 2x15 cab for bass or 4x12 for guitar [or equivalent] is the best rule of thumb in being prepared for whatever gets thrown your way. You'll be heard whether playing inside or out...without stabbing your audience in the eardrums

[GardenoftheDead]

For bass I usually say "twice the wattage of what the guitarist is playing".

[Pop]

Caveat: I am [currently] not a touring musician.
To echo the sentiment of others who've already responded...it really depends on what style of music you play, where you play, how you play etc...and matching the right cab with the right amp is more important than a BIG LOUD AMP in a vacuum. As it was mentioned *downgrading to a 50w amp from 100w* produced 3x louder results for Dowi.
I feel like a Bassman head + 2x15 cab for bass or 4x12 for guitar [or equivalent] is the best rule of thumb in being prepared for whatever gets thrown your way. You'll be heard whether playing inside or out...without stabbing your audience in the eardrums

Ok cool. Lots of Fender Bassman Head/Cab combos around here on Craigslist. "Super-clean" ones for around $1,000. What should I look for? Are the new ones any good or should I go for the ones that look like they came out in 1975?

Thanks.

[rustywire]

I'm a fan of 60s and 70s Bassman amps. Any of them. I preffer the 5881 powered circuits in general but they're all good. See if any come up in used sections of GC or equivalent, where you can go and demo, spend some time with/to get a better idea of your preferences. I avoid reissues. Originals will always be in demand and wont be getting any cheaper; getting your money back isn't a struggle. Those amps are well built, there's good reason why you can find so many in a search! If you find THE ONE in GC then don't hesitate to get it...but the best ones tend to come from private sales as store employees get first dibs on stuff that comes in.

My best advice is look for original, no mods...save for the grounded power cord. Whether clean or in rough condition...expect to have a tech give it a thorough cleaning/tuning to make sure it's as roadworthy & reliable as possible.

[rfurtkamp]

New ones aren't bad but there I'd buy used or at a discount (unless buying new and a payment plan works for you).

The older ones there's not much variance on the AB165 circuit into the end of the run in the SF days (when it became the 50 and 100).

Cab, modern cab will get you more volume/control/tone sculpting options and not necessarily weigh like a refrigerator.

But I like 15" for guitar too, so I'm wrong in the head.

[SoaringTortoise]

Super-dee-Dooper important.