Help with my ultimate Droom setup!

[postnothing1]

Been on a 3 year hiatus from gigging since my last BM band split, been recording ever since- sold my Randall stack and now, wanting to get back in the game.
Really digging a lot of the Drone/Doom/noise works, just want to get some feedback on my current guitar rig build.

I currently have a 1966 Blackfaced Fender Bassman (AB165) that I wanna keep as a studio amp, love the amp but- looking to get a more headroom / louder amp.
Was thinking about getting a Metro Amp Superbass but recently saw a local listing for a early 70's Ampeg V4B for a decent price. Never played one before.
Going to try it out first of course and see how it fits.

1. Is there anything I should take note before grabbing this heavyweight amp? Lurking around the webs, I see that these amps can do a mean guitar and perfect for pedal use.
2. How reliable are they on the road / What are their known issues?
3. Recommended cabinet (thinking Orange PPC 4X12 or something w/ Manowars)
4. 90's Fender California Tele - stock tex mex pups, has anyone tried using hot rails for the bridge? need bit more sustain out of it, maybe also putting a p90 in the neck.
5. 80's Rat vs Supercollider? my Muff is a bit too much flabby and wouldn't mind something a bit tame.

Thanks for the help!

[D.o.S.]

1. There are some people here that swear by them, but you don't necessarily need to be 'louder' than your Blackface. Not that you shouldn't buy the amp, because they're awesome, but I don't think it's an 'essential' upgrade.
2. It's a 40 year old amp. Act accordingly.
3. New Orange Cabs are relatively overpriced for the designs they're based on. What are you using for a cab now?
4. I got nothing.
5. That's like comparing apples to chainsaws, man. What kind of mufff do you have already?

[BoatRich]

1: I've had both a V4 and a Bassman used for guitar, bass, noise, and keys. The V4 stayed, but if I had the option I would have both.
2: Like D.O.S said, it's an old amp. Mine has blown up twice since I've owned it, and that's a pretty common complaint. That said, I've seen tons last for years with no issues. It's how hard you play it and take care of things really.
3: Agreed with D.O.S. again
4: I've heard good things about the hot rails, but the tele ones I tried were way too bright. A p90 in the neck is a good call.
5: BOTH. The supercollider is my favorite muff, period. I've yet to hear one as devastatingly heavy and useful, and I used to hate RATs until I boosted a Muff with one.

[postnothing1]

1. There are some people here that swear by them, but you don't necessarily need to be 'louder' than your Blackface. Not that you shouldn't buy the amp, because they're awesome, but I don't think it's an 'essential' upgrade.
2. It's a 40 year old amp. Act accordingly.
3. New Orange Cabs are relatively overpriced for the designs they're based on. What are you using for a cab now?
4. I got nothing.
5. That's like comparing apples to chainsaws, man. What kind of mufff do you have already?

I agree that Orange cabs are overpriced for a new one, was thinking about getting a used broken in 4X12 for around $600-$800 max. Currently, I am using the bassman's 2X12, I have hooked it up to a Marshall with V30's and it sounded really fucking good. Avatar can be a option as well.

I love the bassman, sounds hot like a plexi but I am really looking for something a bit more sturdy for the road and a bit more headroom. Like most people here, been hungry for a Sunn T // OR 120 // Plexi - but from what I heard about the v4's they hold their own.

What is a good price for a early 70's V4B = the dude is willing to part with $850.

Also have the NYC Big Muff so definitely going to grab the supercollider.

[Ancient Astronaught]

1) The original type power tubes for these amps were not readily available until a couple years ago so alot of these amps have been modified to run different power tubes. Absolutely find out what tubes are in it and if it was properly setup for them. Also make sure all the rocker switches and the reverb works. If any switch or knob makes noise when being moved that could be a sign of lack of maintenance.
2) If properly tech'd they can run for a very very long time with no issues. If not its a ticking time bomb that could last 5 years or 5 minutes. As stated above check and make sure all knobs work and arent noisey, also check for back ground noise if there seems to be a high noise floor then the caps are old and probably on their way out. That would need to be taken care of immediately as thats usually the catalyst for failure on these amps.
3) Peavey M / MS412's, celestion loaded Randall cabs, Marshall 1960's, Mesa 4x12's... theres quite a few options, the oranges as stated above are extremely overpriced for minimal improvement in tone. All the cabs I listed can be found for any where between 100 and 400 used and will suit you just fine.
4) I had a hot rails pickup in an old esquire, its a fantastic pickup for doom. It sounds like a Duncan Distortion with a bit more top end clarity and bite.
5) If your running into a V4 the muff as a solitary dirt pedal is gonna be your best bet for playing doomy droney stuff. If you can afford both they are a classic and amazing combo, but alone they have very different uses. The muff will sound best into a clean amp with very little of its own gain due to the insane amount of saturation. The Rat will sound best into an amp thats all ready breaking up as it will push the amp into insane levels of saturation while having modest levels of gain by its self.

[Ancient Astronaught]

What is a good price for a early 70's V4B = the dude is willing to part with $850.

Also have the NYC Big Muff so definitely going to grab the supercollider.

For $850 it better be recently tech'd with a completely clean bill of health, new power tubes, etc as these tend to go for $4-500 in modest condition (i.e; functional but needing some minor work)

If you have an NYC muff all ready it might be more worthwhile to get the rat for varied tones and the awesomeness of running a rat into a muff. It will tighten up your tone over all (get rid of that flub you hear) and bring out the missing mids of the muff.

[D.o.S.]

-As per usual, Skip is right on the money: I'd want it fresh out of the box (as it were) for $850. If the point is clean headroom, then just

-The Supercollider is an NYC big muff on steroids. It's also my favorite muff circuit ever, but (again) I agree with Skip -- if you already have the NYC, maybe go for the rat instead.

-Loathe as I am to sound like the "most clubs mic your shit anyway"/"You don't really need that" guy. but from your desired list of amps Model T/OR/Plexi, plus the fact that you're using a Big Muff/want an SC anyway, it seems like you're basically looking for volume first, tone second. To that end, you can find a lot of tube amps that'll be way cheaper than the V4 and go just as loud.

[archlilim]

There's a V4 for sale on ILF for cheaper than $850 that might be worth checking out:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45502&hilit=ampeg+v4

Also like DoS said, might be worth looking into cheaper stuff if you're looking for 100+ watts without something too specific in mind. I was on a similar quest last year and ILD was super helpful in my search:

viewtopic.php?f=227&t=41186

[odontophobia]

There's a V4 for sale on ILF for cheaper than $850 that might be worth checking out:

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45502&hilit=ampeg+v4

Also like DoS said, might be worth looking into cheaper stuff if you're looking for 100+ watts without something too specific in mind. I was on a similar quest last year and ILD was super helpful in my search:

viewtopic.php?f=227&t=41186

I would read a reply and then be like, "I'm gonna quote that and be like, 'Spot on.'"

The problem is that pretty much everybody is spot on.

Basically you need "amp with high headroom" with "this or that pedal" and "cab suggestions."

I'd skip the Orange unless you have reason to have an Orange. Buddy of mine picked one up used because he wanted one to match his Rockerverb. Price was pretty meh as far as used cabs go. We all know that Marshall 1960 cabs pop up all the time for sub-$400. So as far as cabs go I would either a) save the cheese or b) order something custom. For the cost of a new Orange you could probably get something waaaaaay better with the Speakers you want. Could get that sweet ass stained Atlas cab for the cost of a new Orange and I'm sure there's a helluva a lot more TLC put into it (waterfall chasing included).

As far as the V4B goes. The only negative I seem to hear about those old Ampeg amp centers around techs and negligence. If you've got a trustworthy/reliable tech then your worries shouldn't go too far. If you're worried about touring with the Bassman then the same likely applies for the V4B because from an age perspective I don't think you're really gaining anything there. I don't think you'd be unhappy at all. But let me echo this sentiment: MEC has a V4 for sale in the B/S/T thread and it's a better deal. Not sure about the one you're looking at but without a super clean bill of health I'd at least be cautious. The V4/V4B models seem to have jumped in price by about $300-$400 in the last year and half and there are probably plenty out there that people are just trying to offload. I'd probably try to talk the seller down unless it has recently been teched up and has some new tubes/caps, etc.

From a pedal perspective: because you have the NYC Muff I'll echo the sentiment of Rat. It's hard to say what you'll be happy with, though. I bought my Rat on the same sentiment (well, functionally, Fuzzrocious Rat Tail into BAT Pharaoh). I have my Rat off board right now but may be putting it back on for when I want a really tight high gain sound, I have some settings I think I prefer it at for just that. All things considered I'd see what you can barrow and test once you get an amp. It's so easy to change your mind or start tone chasing with dirt pedals. I have a swath of dirt pedals right now and I feel like at any given moment I could change and be equally happy. I have three on my pedalboard right now and I'm thinking of going to four if I end up expanding upon what I have.

There are a lot of available options out there if you're willing to wait. The choice is decidedly up to you but it sounds like you're on the fence about it. If you're not presently in an active band you still have an amp that you can use so you're not up shit creek without a paddle. Craigslist and eBay are your oyster and I feel like there are better deals to be had on a plethora of amps that will do Loud and Clean for similar prices (aka, $850).

[maggot]

Every unused 4x12 or 2x15 is an albatross around someone's neck. It's just like an old couch, or something. When people want it gone, they really want it fine. I see cabinets selling for less than the value of the speakers inside them all the time. I'd get whatever's selling used that's cheap and has good speakers in it. Especially of it's plywood and not MFD. Seriously, the was a Crate cabinet with 4 G1275Ts for $150.

[Mudfuzz]

Been on a 3 year hiatus from gigging since my last BM band split, been recording ever since- sold my Randall stack and now, wanting to get back in the game.
Really digging a lot of the Drone/Doom/noise works, just want to get some feedback on my current guitar rig build.

I currently have a 1966 Blackfaced Fender Bassman (AB165) that I wanna keep as a studio amp, love the amp but- looking to get a more headroom / louder amp.
Was thinking about getting a Metro Amp Superbass but recently saw a local listing for a early 70's Ampeg V4B for a decent price. Never played one before.
Going to try it out first of course and see how it fits.

1. Is there anything I should take note before grabbing this heavyweight amp? Lurking around the webs, I see that these amps can do a mean guitar and perfect for pedal use.
2. How reliable are they on the road / What are their known issues?
3. Recommended cabinet (thinking Orange PPC 4X12 or something w/ Manowars)
4. 90's Fender California Tele - stock tex mex pups, has anyone tried using hot rails for the bridge? need bit more sustain out of it, maybe also putting a p90 in the neck.
5. 80's Rat vs Supercollider? my Muff is a bit too much flabby and wouldn't mind something a bit tame.

Thanks for the help!

1. who can say…
2. old amps can and will have issues, that is how life works.
3. personally… just get a big 2x15 cab like a sunn or something
4. all pickups are worth "trying" only then will you really know
5. Both, a rat into a muff is massive as fuck

[antennafarm]

1. old amps can be testy amps. make sure it's been recently serviced.
2. i hear they blow up, BUT i've never had one so!
3. the matching cab. v4 cabs are durable as fuck and cheap. load them with whatever you want.
4. seriously, it's the tele go to recommendation on this board, but the bareknuckle flat 50's. they're fantastic. get them reverse wound with the serial option, you'll be good to go.
5. supercollider fucking rules man. mine isn't flabby at all. i'd say a good OD from catalinbread.

[maggot]

Also, if you need more volume from your Bassman, that's understandable, (assuming you have the 45-watt Blackface circuit), because they just weren't that loud. However, if you're main concern is reliability, get it serviced and use it. There is no more reliable tube amp than an old, non-bells-and-whistles Fender in good repair. A V4 will be a lot louder, and if it's working correctly, it'll sound awesome, but I'd trust a Bassman first.

If your margin of not-loud-enough is small, you may be able to bump your volume up to where you need it by getting more, and more efficient speakers. 4 Eminence Wizards, for example, will be much, much louder than 2 of whatever's in your Fender Cab.

I've played both Bassmen and V4s extensively. For crushing doom, there's no question that a V4 is louder, has tighter bass and more (and more controllable) mids. For feedbacky "droom", I think an old Bassman head is the best feedback amp ever due to its forgiving EQ and compression. When I was a but a young lad (I'm old as fuck now), my friends would take Mescaline and endlessly trip out on the feedback from my AB165 and my Ibanez V. If I still had that guitar and that amp, I'd be happy as a clam!

Porch 1990. One of "those" sessions. You can't see my Bassman, but you can see the bass player's V4:

Maggots90.jpg (49.38 KiB) Viewed 4507 times

[aen]

3. personally… just get a big 2x15 cab like a sunn or something

15's lose all but the fundamental/subs sometimes when I go to war... I would suggest a 15 and some tens! Or some 12's, but I have almost no experience with those outside my twin reverb.

[maggot]

3. personally… just get a big 2x15 cab like a sunn or something

15's lose all but the fundamental/subs sometimes when I go to war... I would suggest a 15 and some tens! Or some 12's, but I have almost no experience with those outside my twin reverb.

I've had no problem with (generic 70s-80s) 15s and a V4, but I have experienced that effect with other amps.