Trying to Learn Pedal Design

[IEatCats]

I'm trying to get into designing pedals and circuits. I was an electronics major for a little while, so I'm familiar with some of this stuff, but I'm totally lost trying to learn now.

I understand the stages of a big muff, and a lot of the concepts behind that. I kind of understand what resistors in certain spots do, but stuff like this is completely above my head.

I already grabbed an e-book ("Electronic Projects for Musicians" by Craig Anderson) that I'm hoping will clear up most of my confusion, but I'd love to get a hand understanding this stuff from some builders here. (And the info thread didn't really help me figure it out much.)

TL;DR - Help me understand the basics of pedal design.

[multi_s]

if you want to learn the ins and outs of transistor circuits i would highly recommend a book like 'microelectronic circuits' by sedra and smith. im sure you could find a pdf pretty easily since it is pretty standard. it discuses feedback and frequency response in great detail and many many applications of different types of transistors.

a simpler book with some similar topics is maybe malvino's 'electronic principles'. This book has a more cook book style approach but does not derive things from scratch always so you are sort of stuck only knowing exactly what they tell you, although it does cover most typical setups as well as opamps, simple timers and oscilators etc.

this stuff would definitely help you understand what each individual part in circuits like the fuzz face is doing and what to expect form changing values etc.

[RR Bigman]

The art of electronics is a great book...not much mathematical theory (there is a little, but the authors state it's not required to understand what's being taught) Mr. RG Ken Keen has a pretty informative website as well. And if you're anything like me, you'll learn a lot from actually building some shit, so buy a breadboard and throw some stuff down on it...it's fun and a great way to spend a rainy day and a case of beer.

[IEatCats]

@multi_s: I don't have the money for those books, but I do appreciate the advice.

The art of electronics is a great book...not much mathematical theory (there is a little, but the authors state it's not required to understand what's being taught) Mr. RG Ken Keen has a pretty informative website as well. And if you're anything like me, you'll learn a lot from actually building some shit, so buy a breadboard and throw some stuff down on it...it's fun and a great way to spend a rainy day and a case of beer.

Already having basic electronics understanding (like I said, I was an electronics major for a year and a half), and having looked at a lot of diagrams from Devi Ever and a handful of commercial pedals, I still feel like I'll end up being an intuition and experimentation builder, more than a planned and precise builder when I get to building. For some reason, a lot of the terms just don't correspond to anything practical. Maybe if I had an oscilloscope view of the change in the waveform as the pedal's parts are changed and at different stages, it'd be easier for me to get it.

I do have a lot of ideas for effects that I haven't seen before, and I think I know how to go about building them, based on looking at a few different circuits for the stages I'd need in them.

[RR Bigman]

Well that's sort of vague...how are we supposed to know what you've already learned? Anyways, just breadboard some circuits off the internet and start messing with shit.

[eatyourguitar]

I took a year and a half of electronics in college but it was not my major. your probably right that you don't need to buy any books. I often read so much on the internet while the book is in the mail that I don't need the book by the time it gets here! so yeah even the best books have a small feeling of regret. I am all self taught. I did not really retain any knowledge from college. all my knowledge is from building experience and technical discussions on the internet. DIYstompboxes really helped the most. but I think it depends on your luck and what your building. sometimes you post something there and get no reply. partly because people don't have the answer and partly because people are selective on what they will breadboard, sim, read. there is so much to learn from the real world that is really helpful. like how and where to ask. how to search for datasheets, schematics, parts. how to get the best price. how to stay organized. these don't come out of a book. learning how to troubleshoot is something that is fundamentally based on your own failures. you must fail to learn. if by some luck you seldom fail, it is by the same luck that you seldom learn.

[IEatCats]

Oh, I wanted to share this, and might post it in the links after I've used this version more, but National Instruments makes a hardware prototyping and troubleshooting program called MultiSim. Generally, it's for educational use, but I found that they have a free version that lets you work with analog components, and can simulate waveforms and speakers.

https://lumen.ni.com/nicif/us/evalmulti ... tent.xhtml

So, you can design/prototype pedals without having to actually build them first. I'm still installing this version, so I'm not sure if it's as good as the full educational version (which was beautiful. I used to prototype guitar wiring schemes and small pedals from schematics in class instead of doing the actual work >.>).

[eatyourguitar]

I was actually talking more about the hands on troubleshooting. Like the real impedance of the wire and the solder and the case. RFI problems and ticking noise in anthing with an LFO. How do you fit tons of shit into a little box? Why did this wire break? That kind of deductive reasoning is like a brute force ghetto way of learning engineering. Its just a reactive form of engineering vs proactive.

[IEatCats]

Yeah, I'm not denying that hands on troubleshooting is important, I'm just saying that it's a program that might be able to help with design. It's great for me, because I don't have the cash to order parts right now.

[eatyourguitar]

try spice, its free. www.linear.com/ltspice a scope is good for learning too. you can look at frequency response on a screen if your scope does FFT. looking at waveforms is not always as useful as just plugging in a guitar and jamming for a bit. I still don't have a scope. I might get a bench meter that does peak hold and RMS.

[multi_s]

@multi_s: I don't have the money for those books, but I do appreciate the advice.

ya you can look online for 'alternative' sources of a pdf, like on mega upload or something. or try Alibris. i got a copy of sedra for 4 dollars. old editions dont really matter because transistors have not changed much. IIRC sedra is up to 6. I have a 4th and have seen 5 and 6, the only major change is the order of chapters to be most relevant to current trends in use. Or there is always libraries.

also re multisim: i found this program was ok but that Pspice by Cadence was a lot better (or try LTspice as suggested)

If you want something even more simple i would really suggest just using this online sim. Its pretty amazing for how simple it is.

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/