Quick Cab to Head question plz

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Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.
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Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. »

soo i got my sunn concert bass last night from Rygots friend

i know its rated at 200W. and i believe 2 ohms?
(doesn't say the ohms on the back but i seen an old sunn advertisement on the internet that says 2 ohms so thats what im goin w/)

i have 2 sunn model 2 cabs which are rated at 50w 16 ohm each.

can i run both cabs off my concert bass at once?

can i run one cab off my conert bass?

i kinda don't think it'll be a problem but i don't want to blow shit up

:hobbes:
Last edited by Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by siamesegun »

If the impedance isn't on the back of the head, it's hard to be sure but a quick google search shows possibly 4 ohms output impedance.

So, yes, pairing two 16 ohm cabs with this head will be just fine.
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Gunner Recall »

If the amp is only 2 ohm, that's a big load mismatch...I wouldn't.
Generally it's safer to do a mismatch with the cab exceeding the rating of the head (you'll MIGHT only damage the tubes and not the whole amp)
but the general rule is that a cab mismatch should be about double/half of what the amp is set to.

You could probably re-wire the speaks in the cabs to get a proper load...
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by siamesegun »

Gunner Recall wrote:If the amp is only 2 ohm, that's a big load mismatch...I wouldn't.
Generally it's safer to do a mismatch with the cab exceeding the rating of the head (you'll MIGHT only damage the tubes and not the whole amp)
but the general rule is that a cab mismatch should be about double/half of what the amp is set to.

You could probably re-wire the speaks in the cabs to get a proper load...


This is incorrect, an amplifier rated at 2 ohms can GO DOWN to 2 ohms. As long as your impedance is not lower than the rating on the head, you're doing it right.

Two 16 ohm cabs in parallel is 8 ohms net impedance, which should a nice sweet spot for the amp.
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. »

nice! thanks for the help guys! :hug:

also, FWIW, sunn concert bass is a SS amp, no t00bz.

i've heard that double/half thing about watts, but not ohms..
i was told that your amp can be around 2x-2.5x the watts of your speakers if you are peak limiting/not clipping your signal.
(i.e. 100 watt amp ==> 50 watt speakers) :idk:
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by siamesegun »

If the head is rated at 200 watts into 2 ohms, at 8 ohms it will produce roughly 50 watts output. As you double the impedance, you essentially half the wattage output.

http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Electronics/OhmsAmpsandSpeakers.html

The wattage rating for this head will match well to those cabs with little risk of damage.

Play on playa.
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Gunner Recall »

You can get nasty flyback voltage from a cab rated with an ohm higher than the amp,
but that's generally a tube issue (voltage spikes from a heavier load arcing between the pins on the tube sockets and frying the sockets).

For SS I guess you don't really have to worry about that.
I keep forgetting ILF has become a safe haven for you silly bassists and your SS amps. Too used to corksniffery tube onry guitarists.

The dude from Weber speakers posted a fairly detailed response on mismatching (wallotext under the nsfw tag):

NSFW: show
Ok, so let's discuss the problems associated with mismatches. When you use a load that is lower than the intended load, the output has to drive the load (speaker) with more current because it is a lower impedance than is expected. Two inherent problems associated with transformers are flux leakage and regulation. Flux leakage is also referred to as leakage inductance. It is related to the current in the secondary, and these problems increase as the current increases. As the current draw in the secondary increases, the primary has a more difficult time transferring the signal to the secondary, so the secondary signal to the load gets squashed, or 'soft-clipped'. This soft clipping is called regulation. While regulation is desireable in a power supply, it is undesireable in a transformer. In other words, in a power supply, if the input voltage or the output load current changes, we don't want the output voltage to change. In a transformer, we want the output voltage to follow the input voltage and not regulate at all. When you put a heavier load on the output than was intended, it will pull the output voltage down, hence regulation. The leakage inductance problem arises because the current from the heavier load causing the regulation to occur reduces the efficiency of the transformer by not allowing the output to follow the input. Transformer designers simulate or view this problem as having extra inductance in series with the primary. The extension of this idea then, is that with the heavier load, you could affect the efficiency of the transformer, alter the frequency response (due to the extra leakage inductance in series with the primary), and cause other distortions to occur.

OK, on to mismatching the other way. A speaker is a current operated device in that it responds to the current through it to generate a magnetic field that works against the magnetic field of the speaker magnet to make the cone move in and out. Thinking in very short amounts of time, when the output charges up the voice coil with current, then the signal goes away or gets reduced, the cone system moves the voice coil back to its home or resting position. As it is moving back, it generates a voltage that is fed back up the line into the transformer and appears in the output circuit of the amp. This generated voltage is often referred to as flyback voltage, because we are charging up an inductor, then when we disconnect or stop charging the inductor, the magnetic field in the inductor collapses and induces this big voltage into itself. This big voltage then 'flies back' to the source of the charging current. There is a mathematical formula to determine how big the voltage is and it is related to the inductance of the voice coil, the amount of time it was fed current, and how much current it was charged with. The bottom line is that the voltage fed back to the output circuit is oftentimes much higher than the voltage that was used to drive or charge up the voice coil initially. This voltage gets transformed up by the turns ratio of the output transformer, and in many cases can be over 1,000 volts. What happens then is that arcing can occur between the pins on the output tube socket. Once this has occured, a carbon path forms on the tube socket between the pins. The carbon path allows a steady current to flow between the pins and eventually burns up the socket due to the heat that is generated. For example, it wouldn't be too uncommon to see a transformer turns ratio of 30:1. If we had a voltage fed back from the voice coil that was around 50 volts, 30 times 50 would be a 1,500 volt spike at the plate of the output tube. This is why you often see designers connect diodes in a string between the output tube plates and ground. They are trying to suppress these spikes and dissipate the energy in the diodes rather than allowing an arc to occur at the tube socket. So, when you use a higher impedance load on a lower impedance tap, the turns ratio is higher and resulting fed-back (flyback) voltage gets multiplied up higher than what it would have been with the correct impedance load.
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by theavondon »

I run my Sunn SS head into cabs with an incredible sense of wreckless abandon, and it's never broken as a result. GO NUTS AND HAVE FUN!
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. »

awesome! thanks everyone! :group:

i can't wait to plug in, inhale smoke, shake my house and piss off my neighbors.

oh and gunner...i am not a bassist, nor a guitarist
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by kbit »

Hey, look! Someone else from Rochester on ILF!

:hello:
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Gunner Recall »

Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. wrote:oh and gunner...i am not a bassist, nor a guitarist


You're thomas grillo, aren't you?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfz9aNapg-U[/youtube]
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by siamesegun »

[quote="Gunner Recall"]The dude from Weber speakers posted a fairly detailed response on mismatching (wallotext under the nsfw tag):
quote]
+1 For the Weber love

Weber love all over the place. I absolutely love the fact that Weber is so respected and built right around the corner from where I grew up. And that I know dudes that work there.
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Re: Quick Cab to Head question plz

Post by Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. »

kbithecrowing wrote:Hey, look! Someone else from Rochester on ILF!

:hello:


:!!!: :hello:

i think i've seen a few others here from the roc
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