Learning guitar theory

[mathias]

Hey guys.

Years ago I bought the Guitar Fretboard Workbook and recently I started working through it seriously. I'm now about two months into that book and ordered the Guitar Grimoire: Scales and Modes, which looks a lot more complex.

What did you do to learn guitar theory? Or are you one of those folks that tries to ignore it completely? Would love suggestions, opinions, reviews.

edit: I'm actually kind of disappointed by the "Grimoire" since it is just a bunch of scale charts that I could grab off Ultimate Guitar.. I just read the introduction that explains the diagrams and learned nothing about scales. Read some reviews of this thing on Amazon (which I should have done first) and people point out that he doesn't even show you the root note or put the scales in an order that makes sense:

The modes are subsequently listed in each section of their respective parent scale, but not in the table of context. So this "professional reference tool" only works one way - you have to know the name of the scale you're looking for in order to use it. You're even worse off if you have to find a particular mode that is an unusual one. For example, how are you to know that Lydian #2 is actually the 6th mode of the Harmonic Minor scale. Granted you could figure it out from the name for this one, but suppose you need a mode/chord compatibility of some Hungarian-Gypsy-composite-enigmatic-dominant-II... you have nowhere to go.

Lame. Thinking about returning it to Amazon, if they'll let me.

[kosta]

You need to get MagicLawnchair on the horn here...

[mathias]

MAGIC LAWN CHAIR. I SUMMON YOU!

[CBGB]

Once I was into metal and so learned to play lots of scales as fast as possible. No I try either to mix things up, or just make noise, or a bit of both, or just not play.

[Bassus Sanguinis]

The scales. Now THAT'S boring like nothing else. WAit - THE OLD PHONEBOOKS, THAT'S A COMPARISON. No, seriously. I've stared through the Jonas Hellborg Chord Bassics -' yep, lot's of chords there all right!' - and took a book of scales & modes & impressive amounts of chord charts (can't remember the real name, sorry) and felt silly playing the scales through. Kept playing, however, for a week or two and moved on.

My musician/ musicologist/ teacher/ composer friend has always encouraged me to learn the theory 'since it's really simple and obvious if You put some effort to it'. He also says the books tend to be boring as fuck and some times just badly written because it's often written by persons without ANY expertise in writing and pedagogy. Goes for the Guitar Grimoires, for example, didn't buy when leafed through it. Not that I'd enjoy any of them much better, but I remember some of them made perfect sense at in presentation.

[mathias]

The scales. Now THAT'S boring like nothing else. WAit - THE OLD PHONEBOOKS, THAT'S A COMPARISON. No, seriously. I've stared through the Jonas Hellborg Chord Bassics -' yep, lot's of chords there all right!' - and took a book of scales & modes & impressive amounts of chord charts (can't remember the real name, sorry) and felt silly playing the scales through. Kept playing, however, for a week or two and moved on.

My musician/ musicologist/ teacher/ composer friend has always encouraged me to learn the theory 'since it's really simple and obvious if You put some effort to it'. He also says the books tend to be boring as fuck and some times just badly written because it's often written by persons without ANY expertise in writing and pedagogy. Goes for the Guitar Grimoires, for example, didn't buy when leafed through it. Not that I'd enjoy any of them much better, but I remember some of them made perfect sense at in presentation.

I definitely agree. I feel like I got duped by buying a book of 300 pages of scale charts that any website or guitar software could generate for me. His explanation of the scale charts is just to show how his notation works, but it doesn't really explain composing a scale or the hundred other factors that go into actually using a scale in your playing.

What is the way to learn, then? Just looking at tabs all day doesn't give you any explanation of the notes, why they're there, or how to rip your own solo over the particular chord progression you're in.

I don't play out with out musicians at all / don't know any, so the "jamming with friends improved my playing" isn't going to do it for me. Most people that are still musicians past highschool and are decent players tend to have more of an innate musical ability, I've found, like perfect pitch or just understanding how the sounds go together. Me, I don't know how to do all that, don't have perfect pitch, and couldn't tell you intervals or figure out a scale on top of a chord progression by ear.

[Bassus Sanguinis]

The scales. Now THAT'S boring like nothing else. WAit - THE OLD PHONEBOOKS, THAT'S A COMPARISON. No, seriously. I've stared through the Jonas Hellborg Chord Bassics -' yep, lot's of chords there all right!' - and took a book of scales & modes & impressive amounts of chord charts (can't remember the real name, sorry) and felt silly playing the scales through. Kept playing, however, for a week or two and moved on.

My musician/ musicologist/ teacher/ composer friend has always encouraged me to learn the theory 'since it's really simple and obvious if You put some effort to it'. He also says the books tend to be boring as fuck and some times just badly written because it's often written by persons without ANY expertise in writing and pedagogy. Goes for the Guitar Grimoires, for example, didn't buy when leafed through it. Not that I'd enjoy any of them much better, but I remember some of them made perfect sense at in presentation.

I definitely agree. I feel like I got duped by buying a book of 300 pages of scale charts that any website or guitar software could generate for me. His explanation of the scale charts is just to show how his notation works, but it doesn't really explain composing a scale or the hundred other factors that go into actually using a scale in your playing.

What is the way to learn, then? Just looking at tabs all day doesn't give you any explanation of the notes, why they're there, or how to rip your own solo over the particular chord progression you're in.

I don't play out with out musicians at all / don't know any, so the "jamming with friends improved my playing" isn't going to do it for me. Most people that are still musicians past highschool and are decent players tend to have more of an innate musical ability, I've found, like perfect pitch or just understanding how the sounds go together. Me, I don't know how to do all that, don't have perfect pitch, and couldn't tell you intervals or figure out a scale on top of a chord progression by ear.

I wrote riffs and music - practice pieces really - that incorporate the bloody boring scales.

Next thing that really was more helpful for me was that I gave in and promised - after persuation that went on for week after week after week - to give bass lessons to a friend who wanted to incorporate more chords in his bass playing and a looser, more jamming touch to his playing on his next album. Basically I just taught him the basic position variants of the chords and learned a great deal myself when preparing our lessons and material for him.

To be honest, studying and practicing the scales sucks donkey cock if You ask me, but who knows, they may provide You with what Your playing needs. It didn't hurt my playing, though it doesn't make anybody miraculously a better player. One thing is for sure: You don't really need the Guitar Grimoire if it put You off, just let Google do what Google does the best and visit Your local library for music schools teaching material

You could of course try to look for a cool teacher near You to go through some of that.

duh... I wish I could give a better advice... but I can kind of tell by ear the 'right' notes from the wrong ones and I used to play something like... 5-12 hours a week with bands plus an hour+ a day practicing alone so I fit the character You profiled

[Gearmond]

ugh, guitar theory books WOULD only teach you about scales

anyways, something that really helped me was picking out two scales, and playing on the other one every two measures (more or less) which as an exercise is exactly what you want.

and eventually you realize that most minor modes and scales really sound the same with minor differences and realize that the differences are essentially just a jazz transition step to a different scale and that major scales are the most interesting scales and too many people write minor stuff.

[mathias]

ugh, guitar theory books WOULD only teach you about scales

Well, the Guitar Fretboard Workbook is about more than just learning the scales. I actually highly recommend it.

It starts really basic (names of the strings), has you learn the root shapes (comes in handy later), then it teaches you the notes in order, then how to find the same note on the fretboard by using the root shapes. (Even if you don't know what note you're on, maybe there's a note from a root shape nearby, and you can count up/down from it to know what note you're on. Although technically you know that the string you're on is part of root shape X and you can count the notes up the string to know what note you're on. Or you know that this is root shape 3, so there's the same note up on the 6th and 1st strings, and you should know all the notes going up the E string -- it's the same note.)

From there you're supposed to learn to intuitively find the right note you want anywhere on the neck - that's what I'm working on now. There's more content after that, I just haven't gotten there yet.

From where I am in that book, if someone says the notes to a melody, I should be able to pick those out in a convenient place on the neck.

The next step, I thought, would be to learn how scales and modes are composed (not just memorizing where the notes are.) Then to chord composition and fitting chords and scales together at a theory level that I can actually use for playing, that is, knowing that the chord coming up means I need to be in a certain scale at a certain fret, and that certain notes will fit, after the passage I'm playing now, etc.

I don't have that intuitive "this will all sound good together" skill

[D-Rainger]

I'd check out 'The Advancing Guitarist' by Mick Goodrick. At one point he suggests you go out for a walk (or at least he did in my copy!).
He does go for reading the dots though - which is a bit of an issue. Other than that, an inspiring theory book (can you imagine!).

[mathias]

What is "reading the dots"?

[D-Rainger]

music notation

[mathias]

Finally understand why piano keys are laid out the way they are. I never took piano but I was in band; so I can somewhat still read notes (or at least somewhat remember what symbols mean) but I never had the piano lessons backing everything up that probably would've clued me in to this a lot earlier.

I just spent 30 minutes picking out all the major scales on the neck without having to know any scale shape, just by knowing the spacing. (Whole-Whole-Half, Whole-Whole-Whole-Half) I mean, I knew there was a half-step between B & C and E & F, but I wasn't aware that this might actually have something to do with the C major scale..

Can't recommend Guitar Fretboard Workbook enough if this kind of thing is important to you to learn.

[kbit]

Understanding a keyboard is so helpful with theory.

Examples are in C major

Natural Minor:
whole-half-whole, whole-half-whole-whole
(C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,Bb,C)

Harmonic Minor:
whole-half-whole, whole-half-3halfsteps-half
(C,D,Eb,F,G,Ab,B,C)

Melodic Minor:
whole-half-whole, whole-whole-whole-half & then you are supposed to descend like a regular natural minor scale.
(C,D,Eb,F,G,A,B,C; descending C,Bb,Ab,G,F,Eb,D,C)

[mathias]

It may be basic knowledge for other people (or regarded as unnecessary for some) but this theory is really helping me with my playing.