DL-4 vs. SMMwH

[Bellyheart]

I'm a double delay kinda man. I'm also a looper lover. Trying to figure out the difference between these two comparable models. I hate Line 6, but the DL 4 and the whole 4 series make some amazing sounds. I like with the EHX that you can do the delay and loop simultaneously. I don't know much about the two so please spill the beans. The only reason I have two delays is to have a dedicated looper, but with the SMMwH I don't need two and it takes up less real estate then the Headrush 2/DD-5 combo.

[DarkAxel]

Some people had problems with puting the Line6 to the effects loop - if you use the effects loop, you could fry the pedal. The buffers aren't exactly made for the signal coming through the effects loop -> kaboom

i have the SMMH and frankly it's one of the best delays i've owned... not the best, because i have the Disaster transport by EQD but they're totally different...

my insight on the SMMH:

-Pure digital, not trying to feed you with analog delay simulations and a bizillion different characters of delay
-Even though it's digital, it's not completely sterile sounding
-A lot of presets available
-Can also serve as a reverb and through zero flanger
-GREAT reverse delay
-you can mix in reverb to your echoes - priceless
-You can create totally original delays with echoes rhytmically raising the volume from zero to the original signal , precise number of the exactly same echoes creating interesting rhythm patterns and so on...
-Fairly reasonable size
-Jolly design

there are, however some points i'm not really psyched about...

-i miss tap divisions - dotted 1/8 delays aren't easy to get and to keep them in tempo live is practically imposible
-There are no trails
-The presets are not easy to change on fly, you usually just have to bend over
-Only one preset for the Reverse delay (i'd appreciate at least two, 3 at best)
-Since it's purely digital, it doesn't oscillate

if you asked whether to get a SMMH or Boss DD-20, i'd say SMMH absolutely... because i had the DD_20 before SMMH. However - i've never tried the DL-4

[Noise...]

I only have limited experience with the DL4.

However, I got an SMMH when they came out (over a DL4), and it's the only pedal I have that I'll NEVER sell. It's an always on pedal - either for delay, reverb, or even modulation. The looping is amazing - super easy to use, infinite layers, etc. Not to mention the loop controls.

While it is entirely digital, you can still get excellent analog sounds from it. Turn the filter down to about 10 o'clock and add just a hint of decay, and you've got a really nice, analog sounding delay. Not dead on, but damn close. It *will* oscillate, but not musically. In my opinion, that's its only flaw, and the only reason I've kept my DE7 around so long.

The multi-tap is great as well - think of the "Hold" mode on DD-3's, but more controllable, and without having to hold a button down. You can do delay swells and such easily - IE, you play a note, and the repeats start quiet, then get louder as they keep going, then fade out.

As already mentioned, the reverse delay is AMAZING. I've never heard a better reverse delay - it works flawlessly, sounds great, and it's incredibly usable.

Presets can be annoying to switch, but with grippy shoes or nimble toes you can change them on the fly.

I highly recommend it - it's a great delay, a great looper, and does some fun stuff as well.

[hclapp219]

So I know it's not on your list, but you might want to look at the M9. You get a nice amount of control of the looper, and you can use the looper while delays are on, which I don't believe you can do on the DL-4. I use many of the different delay models, and I think they sound great. I've never tried the SMMwH, but it looks like a cool box too.

[tashiattack]

I have a SMMwH. I do like it, but it definitely depends on what you need.

I only use it to make noise/loop (not that the delays are bad. They are actually pretty good, and it does get close to sounding like an analog). I use a pigtronix echolocation as my main delay, and this is my 2nd delay. The only reason I keep it is because the reverse absolutely rules and its neat to be able to warp whatever you have looped, but I do not like the looping feature. I know there's a way to mod it so that it's just one click instead of holding on to it, but I find the loop and the preset method really annoying. Thus it's not so practical for live purposes so I am considering trading it for a DL4 (I have no experience with one though). Mine is kind of noisy, but no volume drop issues. I heard other units can be vice versa. Also wish there was trails

So I know it's not on your list, but you might want to look at the M9. You get a nice amount of control of the looper, and you can use the looper while delays are on, which I don't believe you can do on the DL-4. I use many of the different delay models, and I think they sound great. I've never tried the SMMwH, but it looks like a cool box too.

I'm guessing the answer is no, but can you "undo" a layer of loop on the M9? (Heres to hoping).

[hclapp219]

I'm guessing the answer is no, but can you "undo" a layer of loop on the M9? (Heres to hoping).

You sure can! Look at the top left button.

[tashiattack]

I'm guessing the answer is no, but can you "undo" a layer of loop on the M9? (Heres to hoping).

You sure can! Look at the top left button.

You sir, have now convinced me to purchase one. Bye Bye Hazarai and my wah!

Whats the reverb line on them? Is it decent as a stand alone?

[modernage]

I'm guessing the answer is no, but can you "undo" a layer of loop on the M9? (Heres to hoping).

You sure can! Look at the top left button.

You sir, have now convinced me to purchase one. Bye Bye Hazarai and my wah!

Whats the reverb line on them? Is it decent as a stand alone?

Some of the best reverbs you can find. There's plenty of discussion on the M9 on our Gear subforum, but let's just say it's one of those pedals I don't see myself getting rid of... until Line6 comes out with something even more awesome to replace it that is (possibly would consider upgrading to something from the POD HD series).

[hclapp219]

You sir, have now convinced me to purchase one. Bye Bye Hazarai and my wah!

Whats the reverb line on them? Is it decent as a stand alone?

Yeah, I like the reverbs. I've been using the cave setting a lot recently. I like being able to set the pre-delay time, because I think it really changes the character of the reverb.

And not that you need any more convincing, but you can set the M9 to be either buffered (DSP) bypass or true bypass, so you can choose if you want trails or not. It's a pretty powerful machine, and if you take the time to read the advanced guide (only available online), you can get some really great and interesting sounds out of it. Also, I highly recommend getting and expression pedal for it; it really unlocks some new possibilities.

[Toonster]

That M9 is still looking as a better option to buy as a next pedal..

[DarkAxel]

It's true that if you want a good looper, i'd probably get M9 over the SMMH. SMMH is cool for experiments and such or jamming home alone, but i don't think you should depend on the looper live. as stated above - the fact you have to hold the button to record a loop is actually very annoying

[Bellyheart]

My line 6 interest is no deeper than a dl4. What do you mean it can oscillate but not musically? How much is the mod and who does it? I had the hardwire delay and the problem with the looper was having to hold it down. Hated it but got use to it. My complaint with the headrush is that you can't get any delay tweaking noises and the looper is shorter than I would like.

[tashiattack]

My line 6 interest is no deeper than a dl4. What do you mean it can oscillate but not musically? How much is the mod and who does it? I had the hardwire delay and the problem with the looper was having to hold it down. Hated it but got use to it. My complaint with the headrush is that you can't get any delay tweaking noises and the looper is shorter than I would like.

The mod delay on the Hazarai is only like 300ms. But its cool because you could play around with that mode and get all sorts of weird sounds (flangers for example), but its nothing to go nuts about. The thing I'm going to miss about it the most is capturing the loop then completely changing it in weird ways.

I THINK the loop is 28 secs on the hazarai. Another annoying thing about it is that you have to turn the bypass off then hold onto the loop/tap tempo switch for a couple of secs to erase what was recorded.

[Astricii]

seems I'm the only one with a DL4 around here eh?

I love mine personally. the tape echo, analogue, digital, even cheap 80's digital version, all sound damn authentic for the price. add in the exp pedal control to switch between two "presets" and you can have 6 settings stored of any 3 models. and you can also control any of the fuctions of the analogue delay model in the looper mode using this method just set up the toe up position as looper with no delay and toe down to looper with your main delay setting of choice and you can blend in the delay as needed. loops something with delay fade the delay out and you've got a delayed loop with clean playing on top.

The only thing I'd recommend is doing the footswitch mod on a DL4. Drasp does it. you can do it yourself if your sparky. just replace the standard "cheap" switches with some nice soft touch moog style that will last forever and ever. He also does a mod to make the buffer more transparent if you notice a volume drop.

I did notice a slight drop when I hooked up my DL4 for the first time but just a small tweak to the master volume on my amp and a touch of highs brought it back to normal.

Personally I'd say DL4 just because it's probably more than you'll ever need reasonably. I can attest that the looper is super easy to use. probably the easiest I've ever dealt with.

[Noise...]

My line 6 interest is no deeper than a dl4. What do you mean it can oscillate but not musically? How much is the mod and who does it? I had the hardwire delay and the problem with the looper was having to hold it down. Hated it but got use to it. My complaint with the headrush is that you can't get any delay tweaking noises and the looper is shorter than I would like.

It will start to oscillate, but you can't do anything with it, and it doesn't sound good. As soon as you move the delay knob, it stops, making pitch changing impossible with the oscillation.

With the SMMH, you have to hold down the switch - I like it fine, but it may be annoying if you don't want to have to hold a button down to record a loop.

The mod delay on the Hazarai is only like 300ms. But its cool because you could play around with that mode and get all sorts of weird sounds (flangers for example), but its nothing to go nuts about. The thing I'm going to miss about it the most is capturing the loop then completely changing it in weird ways.

I THINK the loop is 28 secs on the hazarai. Another annoying thing about it is that you have to turn the bypass off then hold onto the loop/tap tempo switch for a couple of secs to erase what was recorded.

The Mod mode can actually go much longer - the delay knob itself will only get you 300ms, but via tap tempo, you can get much, much longer delays.

The loop is a full 30 seconds. I wish it was longer, but it gets the job done well.