After this's all over, I hope the U.S. gov't bills Trump for the damage he's done to our reputation

[Chankgeez]

im in love w your new gremlins pic

That's the real take away from this discussion.

I saw a couple walking through Chinatown wearing matching Gizmo shirts yesterday.

[snipelfritz]

maybe… I knew where you were coming from but I have this here soapbox just standing here doing nothing... and… I have to live here with all the 'merkins...

I got a bunch of soap and nowhere to put it.

Not gonna put it on my delightfully dirty bod.

[Iommic Pope]

im in love w your new gremlins pic

That's the real take away from this discussion.

I saw a couple walking through Chinatown wearing matching Gizmo shirts yesterday.

Cute.

Couples that mogwai together....

[echoraven]

I would say that eight years of GWB and a pair of invasions hurt the Republicans as much, if not moreso, than the economy did...

If you do research Saddam Hussein was an active sponsor of terrorism. Probably paid the families of the 9/11 Hijackers. Also a UN team found that while Iraq ended developing chemical weapons (WMDs) they kept the facilities in operating condition to resume as soon as sanctions were lifted. People lied to you, don't blindly repeat the lie, research it yourself.

The midterm turnover in 2010 was, to my mind, definitely influenced by a racist reaction to a black president...

Obama won the popular vote. Twice. For your argument to make 1 iota of sense the "racist" had to have stayed home during the 2010 midterm, 2008 and 2012 Presidential elections and shown our in force for the 2014 midterm (which I think you were referring to) where a dog catcher had a hard time being elected as a Democrat.
Further more the guy polling right behind Donald Trump in the Republican clown car is Ben Carson who unlike Obama isn't "half black"; he's "all black".
Oddly enough only Democrats seem to keep bringing up race.

... but the vehemence of a group like the Tea Party isn't simply rage at government overreach -- otherwise it would have started in earnest during W's first term, not in 2009.

Tea Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already" their platform isn't govt overreach, it's taxes so they align themselves with Republicans since a Republican President MIGHT raise your taxes, while a Democrat ABSOLUTELY WILL.. Though they should really back Libertarians since a Libertarian President ABSOLUTELY WILL NOTraise your taxes. Libertarians think you know how to spend your money better than the government.

[D.o.S.]

Part of the reason I avoid talking about politics on ILF is because I don't like to be a dick about things people take seriously.

However, Libertarianism is an ideology that falls apart as soon as you apply it to a group of people beyond a small community. I like roads. I like health care. Most importantly, the modern candidates who are supported by self-proclaimed Libertarians tend to be people that complain about the government; once elected into government, those people should be obligated to do more than complain. In practice, this tends not to be the case -- just ask Kansas. For a more local example, I live in Maine, I've had to deal with Paul fucking LePage for what will have been eight years. He has fucked everything up that he can because he's an idiot who doesn't trust the government and represents idiots who don't trust the government. Those people get no sympathy from me, and their ideology seems to stem largely from an inability to understand that there is a whole wide world that exists beyond their personal confines: a world that is full of much more than "scary illegal immigrants" and "brown people who hate 'Murica." This is not a thing to be proud of endorsing.

To the rest of your post. you know as well as I do that the general presidential elections bring out a lot of voters that don't vote in primaries, or in midterms. 2008 was a landslide in one direction, but 2010 was definitely the "take the country back"/"fire Nancy Pelosi" midterm. So, no, 2014 is not what I was referring to. Don't presume that I haven't done my research, you fuckwit, and I won't presume that you're a useless waste of sperm and eggs who takes things like Libertarian ideology seriously.

Also, for the record, I'm not a Democrat or a Republican. I find elements of both parties rather repugnant.

[casecandy]

LePage is a complete fucking idiot and I hope he burns in hell.

Collins was not a lot better, having spearheaded numerous cuts to education and science in 2008 and beyond.

[D.o.S.]

Collins is still in office -- Snowe is who you're thinking of(?), they're two peas in a pod, essentially: make a strong show for being 'independent' and then vote along party lines 98% of the time. I like Angus King a lot, though.

[echoraven]

...However, Libertarianism is an ideology that falls apart as soon as you apply it to a group of people beyond a small community. I like roads. I like health care...

This is a common theme among those that do not understand Libertarianism. If there is a need for roads, healthcare or whatever it will be provided. The beauty about the human condition is we are great at filling needs. It has been this way since the dawn of time.

...but 2010 was definitely the "take the country back"/"fire Nancy Pelosi" midterm. So, no, 2014 is not what I was referring to. Don't presume that I haven't done my research, you fuckwit, and I won't presume that you're a useless waste of sperm and eggs who takes things like Libertarian ideology seriously. ..

Sorry for assuming you've not done your research, I figured since you repeated a common misconception that you just regurgitated what you were told as you regurgitated the common misconceptions about Libertarianism
"fuckwit" - not gonna lie; I like it.

[D.o.S.]

It's not a misconception -- it's the fundamental principle of the ideology.

f there is a need for roads, healthcare or whatever it will be provided.

Right. By the government. Whether you call it a government or a community-led body that engages citizens in a shared social contract to pool resources and ability voluntarily is really fairly arbitrary.

If not by the government, by whom? Someone who charges a rate to someone else? who sets the value of capital? Taken to an extreme, it rather resembles the feudalism between the haves and have nots: I have access to clean water, and you don't, and if there's no larger entity in existence I'm just going to tell you to fuck off and die (not you literally, obvs. but you know what I mean)

Now, again, there are bits of Libertarian thinking that I like -- it just doesn't work on a broad scale. It certainly doesn't have to as far as a personal ideology is concerned, but it does make for some fairly counterproductive discussions when applied to a grand scale.

[Chankgeez]

I think most systems of government break down at some point. Some just much sooner than others.

[echoraven]

It's not a misconception -- it's the fundamental principle of the ideology.

f there is a need for roads, healthcare or whatever it will be provided.

Right. By the government. Whether you call it a government or a community-led body that engages citizens in a shared social contract to pool resources and ability voluntarily is really fairly arbitrary.

If not by the government, by whom? Someone who charges a rate to someone else? who sets the value of capital? Taken to an extreme, it rather resembles the feudalism between the haves and have nots: I have access to clean water, and you don't, and if there's no larger entity in existence I'm just going to tell you to fuck off and die (not you literally, obvs. but you know what I mean)

Now, again, there are bits of Libertarian thinking that I like -- it just doesn't work on a broad scale. It certainly doesn't have to as far as a personal ideology is concerned, but it does make for some fairly counterproductive discussions when applied to a grand scale.

Great post! Libertarianism calls for strong national defense so resources will need to be moved (you made me think about this) from point A to point B. Whether it's military equipment or resources for commerce and probably in a libertarian utopia it would still be handled by the government because while private industry can fill many needs, the needs of commerce are not needs of defense and general well being....
...or I'm just a fuckwit.

[D.o.S.]

we're all fuckwits in the early hours of Monday morning.

[Chankgeez]

Had no idea Huckabee was still in it:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... ailsignout

[D.o.S.]

The only good thing he ever did:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHaDZxTWTtE[/youtube]

[snipelfritz]

The only good thing he ever did:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHaDZxTWTtE[/youtube]

Wut

Huckabee is a derp, but he IS the only candidate who can rock out.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sb6U8fHPsg[/youtube]