Computer based ambient drone: Tim Hecker, Ben Frost etc...

[louderthangod]

I'm super new to the whole computer world of things but I think I'm finally starting to get it. I've been making dark/doomy/ambient music forever on guitar with a bunch of pedals and bows and stuff but a few years ago I started getting into guys like Tim Hecker and Ben Frost. The live footage I've seen of these guys they're often doing some sort of something on laptops. What sorts of software are they using. I know a guy that uses Ableton to do some similar-isn glitchy/noise stuff. I'm not looking to exactly create what they're doing, just something to get my foot in the door. With Ben it seems like he's manipulating his guitar sometimes and at other times it's just coming from who knows where. I also don't see these guys constantly on some midi controller...there's a lot of mouse movement. Any idea what kind of things they're doing, either specific or vague? Thanks.

[D.o.S.]

Not that I make any claims to be good at this shit, but what do you want to know? I use Ableton to manipulate everything I put out. Most of it involves rounding out sources with various reverbs (both in the box and tweaked) to make them sound more expansive.

This isn't done yet, but there's Ableton all over it:
https://soundcloud.com/escapecraft/wip/s-wQk7b

[rainlet]

I've been doing a lot of this as well. I know Fennesz uses ppooll which I use too, but is a bit of a hard nut to crack (if you have any questions regarding ppooll, I can try to help out). I think a lot of these guys are really heavy in Max/MSP or Pure Data, so that might be all the furious mousing you're seeing.

[D.o.S.]

Yeah Pure Data is super fucking rad and super fucking confusing to plebs like me.

[jrmy]

Max/MSP terrifies me, and I really wish it didn't.

[rainlet]

I'm planning on upping my PD game once I get a new computer, since I have a friend that got his MA doing some intense PD shit that has offered to help me through the learning process.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, ppooll is totally good for getting your feet wet in this shit, I highly recommend it. You're just linking shit together. The only problem is the crippling lack of documentation.

[louderthangod]

I just googled ppooll and the first two pages broke my brain. I have no idea what's going on...to quote Bill Hicks, it's like showing a dog a card trick. Is it a program I can use like a plugin or is a community of people sharing things they've made? I see Ableton mentioned a lot with it and a few other things. I'm just using Logic Pro X...would I need Ableton to do a lot of this stuff?

[lordgalvar]

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I used to use this tracker years ago (I didn't even know it was still around). It uses vsts it's own native stuff. Lots of interesting routing paths. Used to be a blast (but I last used it like 12-13 years ago). http://psycle.pastnotecut.org/portal.php

[daseb]

has anyone messed around with audiomulch? I found that really intiuitive and nice to use.

[backwardsvoyager]

this is a kind of complicated thing to approach because Frost and Hecker don't always use computers to generate drones, they've usually been more 'electroacoustic' composers.
Frost generally uses Ableton with a bunch of plugins (no idea which) to process guitar and field recordings. He does a great job of recreating things almost from scratch playing live.
Hecker performs with a laptop but i'm pretty sure most if not all his source sounds are field recordings, he's heavily into granular synthesis and using old pedals/racks to process stuff too i think.. one of those guys that will put on an amazing live set but isn't able to replicate his actual workflow when doing so so it's just standing in front of a laptop working with clips and stuff.
Anyway Ableton is the best DAW for this stuff. Even the inbuilt fx plugins are useful. If you're too intimidated with Max/MSP etc start with plugins by companies like Glitchmachines that will be able to turn any kind of audio track into ambient noise which you can manipulate. Or use paulstretch to turn audio files into long smears that you can further process.

[penelope tree]

I've read that Tim Hecker uses guitar extensively within his compositions, although it must be heavily manipulated. Piano samples seem to be quite prominent in his more recent material.

Why is Ableton popular with ambient musicians?

[tremolo3]

I've read that Tim Hecker uses guitar extensively within his compositions, although it must be heavily manipulated. Piano samples seem to be quite prominent in his more recent material.

Why is Ableton popular with ambient musicians?

Extremely easy to use, OK looping features and weird-but-usable factory plugins.

[kbit]

Guitar seems to have been very present in Hecker's earlier albums but it seems like it's been tamed down on the last few albums in favor of othet instruments (piano, organ, woodwinds, etc).

[Ev_O)))]

This is super relevant to my interests. I saw both these guys live this year.
These dudes are totally very much based in the electroacoustic world, as previous mentioned. They use a lot of field recordings, live smaples and instrumentation and then combine it with soft synths, granular synthesis, MAX and a myriad of plugins.
Frost uses Ableton, but I have heard that Hecker uses Logic to compile his end results while doing a lot of work in MAX and Audiomulch.
For Ben Frost, there is a massive difference between stuff like"Aurora" and "Theory of Machines". When I saw him this year, it was mostly laptop/Trigger based while he would also occaisionally pick up a Telecaster that from what I could tell was going through a laptop and then into TWO fucking SVTs and 810s. It was the best thing I've ever seen. All he was doing with it was creating large amounts of feedback or simple drones and looping it in kind of semi random accompaniment to his laptop stuff.
Dude also utilises unholy amounts of compression and strips a shit tonne of some weird kinda low middy range, so it knocks your head off with supreme clarity.

Tim Hecker is much easier to kind of replicate or understand, at least to a point. He just puts an enourmous amount of work and refinement into it.
Field recordings, small repetative samples of acoustic instruments. He's really minimal in his actual notatable composition and instrumentation, and just layers things really amazingly.
Dude uses heads of granular synthesis inside the box, and I recall him favouring an Eventide H8000.
When I saw him live this year there wasn't a lot in the way of identifiable music, like his album stuff. It was really, really noisey and cool, while there would be a few familiar piano fragments here and there. Super cool.

Frost was my fav live show ever. Tim Hecer would be still in the top 5 though for sure.

I make similair (Admittedly WAY shittier) stuff utlising the kind of processes simialir to the one I outlined for Hecker. I use Ableton at utilise the Monolake Granulator MAX instrument extensively. That is the one true advantage of ABLETON for me, the partial yet seamless integration of MAX into your workflow. There is a website called MAXFORLIVE.COM that compiles all the available MAX effects and instruments, many of them free, and they can be implimented eactly the same as VSTs/AUs, while being quite a bit smaller, more stable that most free VSTs and in a lot of cases quite a bit more niche. For example, one of my most used MAX effects is a Stereo Limiter with an LFO on each side. Get some seriosuly wobbly shit going on. I also use one that is a real time kind of effect in that it has 2sec, 5sec and 1 second buffers which can record and playback audio onto new armed tracks in real time at a variety of speeds and backwards if you choose.

The mouse movement OP references would have to probably be the triggering of clips in Ableton's awesome session view. It's a pretty intuitive way to bring weird Ideas into a kind of free live domain.

A good reverb is essential, as I am sure you know. Valhalla Vintage is my fav currently, as well as a MAX effect called WASH.
BAckwards voyager mentions paulstretch and that thing rocks,a s well as the free delays/glitch stuff from Glitch machines.
Also, try sidechaining heavily processed field recodings to actual music, it can get some cool results.

Also, although it may be sacrilege around here, I enjoy recording guitar through my pedal board and straight into my interface for a lot of weirder textures. SOmetimes a dirt pedal will sound completely different, or even bad in a good way, or something like that and it can be rally inspiring in these situations.

In the end, Ableton isn't probably ESSENTIAL but session view and the integration of the MAX stuff makes in indespensible to me.

Hope some of that is helpfull, I'll have a think on it for a while and see if there is anything else I can think of. Good thread



EDIT: Holy shit that is a long post. Sorry I'm a fanboy mofo who's pretty into this kind fo stuff haha

[Dandolin]

I like it. Bring it. Bring moar.

Morton Subotnick. Key to Songs.