Vero Board

[elbandito]

Is it just me, or does VeroBoard seem stupid easy to learn? I've just been looking at a bunch a vero schematics and I swear that I could do most of the effects that I looked at... and I plan to try, as a matter of fact. PCBs are very intimidating and Perfboard looks like you'd need to develop a technique but Vero looks so simple and clean. And when I looked at a VeroBoard pic with the schematic beside it, everything made sense! I couldn't believe it!

There's got to be some catch, though. I mean, if it's so simple and easy, why isn't everybody making their effects with vero? Is there a limit to the complexity of the circuit you're able to make on VeroBoard? Does it not allow current to flow as well or something?

Alls I know, is I'm gonna make me a Parallel Universe on VeroBoard and nuts to buying one. I'm too broke for that shiz.

[Scruffie]

Well.. it depends what your definition of limit is... My limit is an A/DA Flanger on Vero.. I wouldn't go any bigger than that and I don't think you can buy vero sheets bigger, stupidly large build... so yes layouts do start getting bigger and bigger with vero the more complex you go and harder to layout (although I haven't tried double sided vero but that's less common)

Problems with it... Track cuts begin to become a pain when you get past about 20 a board and it's very easy to miss them (you try looking at hundreds of little holes without your eye site getting confused) also space and the amount of jumpers needed becomes an issue as it is very limiting in terms of doing layouts where as with Perfboard you can just copy a PCB layout onto the Perf and there are no restrictions to where you go, no cuts to be made and you can basically plan out the schematic straight onto perf rather than working out how to avoid things running into eachother and getting them lined up.

I choose vero over perf because I feel the components are more stable and well... it's just what I've always used but I can see the benefits to perf, it's alot easier to do layouts for and there are alot more PCB & Perf layouts than there are vero layouts so if you're just painting by numbers you have more options and if you aren't painting by numbers, transferring the schematic to Perf is easier than working out a Vero.

You do need a technique for perf though but once you've got it, you've got it, vero is probably best for smaller builds and then after that i'd go to perf or just PCBs, they're not as intimidating as they seem, I just don't like those nasty chemicals myself and I just know i'd pour the acid down the sink without thinking and then watch as my plumbing eroded.

Oh And if you're planning on building the Parallel universe in that layouts gallery (from your previous post Arr...) Then that's from the old schematic the one without buffers, another problem of just painting by numbers (let alone the amount of unverified layouts) there's a few problems with the old one and it doesn't play well with other effects etc.

[elbandito]

Well.. it depends what your definition of limit is... My limit is an A/DA Flanger on Vero.. I wouldn't go any bigger than that and I don't think you can buy vero sheets bigger, stupidly large build... so yes layouts do start getting bigger and bigger with vero the more complex you go and harder to layout (although I haven't tried double sided vero but that's less common)

How big would the sheet have to be for the A/DA? By the sounds of it, you'd be hard pressed to find an enclosure for the thing.

Problems with it... Track cuts begin to become a pain when you get past about 20 a board and it's very easy to miss them (you try looking at hundreds of little holes without your eye site getting confused) also space and the amount of jumpers needed becomes an issue as it is very limiting in terms of doing layouts where as with Perfboard you can just copy a PCB layout onto the Perf and there are no restrictions to where you go, no cuts to be made and you can basically plan out the schematic straight onto perf rather than working out how to avoid things running into eachother and getting them lined up.

I choose vero over perf because I feel the components are more stable and well... it's just what I've always used but I can see the benefits to perf, it's alot easier to do layouts for and there are alot more PCB & Perf layouts than there are vero layouts so if you're just painting by numbers you have more options and if you aren't painting by numbers, transferring the schematic to Perf is easier than working out a Vero.

You do need a technique for perf though but once you've got it, you've got it, vero is probably best for smaller builds and then after that i'd go to perf or just PCBs, they're not as intimidating as they seem, I just don't like those nasty chemicals myself and I just know i'd pour the acid down the sink without thinking and then watch as my plumbing eroded.

Scruff, thanks man. If this board had rep points, I'd give you one for each paragraph.
I guess after I get a few veros done, I'll try my hand at perf. Baby steps, right? heh.

Oh And if you're planning on building the Parallel universe in that layouts gallery (from your previous post Arr...) Then that's from the old schematic the one without buffers, another problem of just painting by numbers (let alone the amount of unverified layouts) there's a few problems with the old one and it doesn't play well with other effects etc.

Yes, that was the one that I was planning to try out... I guess I should register at diystompboxes or something and see if I can wrangle me a more recent one or one for like Tone Machine or something. I'm sure there's a correct layout somewhere for one of the effects in my sig.

[Scruffie]

Yeah... the A/DA is stupid big... you'd have to build an enclosure really or buy something so expensive it would neglect the savings of building it yourself, plus there's about 150 track cuts and jumpers and looking at the layout makes your head go it's really a proof of you can do it rather than a practical thing (another issue with vero, alot harder to debug than PCBs and Perf)

Yeah give perf a go after a few veros, you might like it, if you ever see Frequency Centrals work on DIY stompboxes he's an insanely good perfer and hater of all things vero.
Or you could ask one of the nice people on DIY stompboxes to make you some PCB boards (John Lyons comes to mind, his boards are incredibly nice, he owns the basic audio site if you've heard of it) some people even post up when they're doing a large amount so you can get in cheap or sell unwanted boards, you can probably get someone to make you a PCB for $8 posted I recon... and after the hassle of cutting the vero to size, track cuts, finding the layout it's really not that much, also you can fit alot more onto a PCB so they tend to fit standard sized boxes alot easier.

Regards another Parallel universe layout... there is another one on the main site but it's unverified so you'd be the first to try it out and if it doesn't work.. could be a mission to sort out the vero (if at all possible). I did do a layout for the Parallel Universe V.2 as I was going to be building a few but it was on paper... i'll see if I can find it... or perhaps draw up another layout for it if I get the chance... another thing you could do is experiment with the original parallel universe on a breadboard which could be a good learning process, you can compare the schematics, see the changes and then perhaps make your own offspring by sticking a different (perhaps simpler) buffer infront and adding or changing controls so on.

As for other layouts... Roland Beebaa, now there's no vero for that but I was considering building one myself so I could be convinced to make one. 2nd Harmonic Percolator, several layouts for that one around but there's speculation as to which are correct and even if any of the schematics for it are right I seem to remember and 3rd... the Champion Fuzz... I thinkkk (don't hold me to this) the Sonic IV is a clone of the B&M Champion Fuzz which in itself is a clone of the Jumbo Tonebender which is a clone of a Big Muff with just one of the sets of clipping diodes lifted *phew* so just buy (probably cheaper) or build a big muff and take out one clipping stage and you're done, i've done that mod before to someone elses big muff and it really does sound good.

Oh but there is a Beebaa PCB http://www.geofex.com/PCB_layouts/Layouts/baa-baa2.pdf

[elbandito]

What's the best way to transfer a PCB layout to Perf? It looks like I might just be able to use jumpers or something but then again, I have no idea what I'm talking about. haha. Next weekend, I'm gonna hole myself up in my apartment and try to churn out two effects. This week, it's all about finding local parts supplier.

[Scruffie]

To transfer a PCB to perf you just make it exactly as it's laid out on the PCB, I suppose for your first try at converting you could Print off the component side layout and PCB side layout and tape them onto the perf so you could follow them exactly, kind of like a DIY Silk screen.

Look at a perf layout and then look at a PCB layout and all you're doing is recreating the traces of the copper board that would be on the PCB but with the leads of the components connecting the pieces instead of the tracks if you get me?

[elbandito]

Thank you Sensei. I will make you proud.

[Scruffie]

I already am *wipes tear from eye*

By the way... it's probably to get out of building while you still can... it's very addictive and will lead to loss of family and stealing to fund your habit , you have been warned

[elbandito]

No way I'm getting out of it! If all goes well, I'm really looking forward to building pedals. I like poking around in electronics. I've been making things forever... converting old walkmans to headphone amplifiers, making electric kazoos, glitching electronic children's toys... I just always thought that creating them from the ground up would be beyond me. Now, on the other hand, it seems like just the type of challenge I've been looking for.

Listen, you mentioned breadboarding... I was thinking about getting the Beavis Board. Do you think (honestly) that it's worth me buying it? I mean, I could just start with vero, since it makes sense to me and go from there instead, right?

[Scruffie]

I'm listening!

Well... thing about vero and breadboard is they're basically the same, they both move in strips just one has seperate power rails (which in a way make it simpler) and is set to a certain amount of holes per strip so theoretically you should be able to follow both easily.

Benefit to breadboard is unlike vero, once you've built it, you can easily pull something apart if you don't like it, second, you can start developing your own circuits and can hear what it sounds like or if it even works before commiting it to a board and trying out circuit mods suddenly becomes 100 times easier.

Think of vero like a canvas where your 2nd best is going to go, PCB to be your final Piece and breadboard like your sketch pad, trying things out, seeing if you like them, changing them, yadayada.

So yeah I do think you should get some breadboard and also a sheet or 2 of vero, to practice your circuits on the bread and then practice your soldering and circuit commitals on vero, wether or not you fork out for the beavis board or develop and source something simmilar yourself is up to you, but for ease, the beavis board makes alot of sense and comes with all the basic stuff you're going to need, it just depends if you feel your time is worth the cash you might save doing it yourself.

But everyone eventually gets a breadboard, so it makes sense to get it first, i've still got my first one... that's complete crap now.