Getting "lush" tone from stale solid-state amp

[jrmy]

I would also suggest trying to run the OCD last in your chain and dialing it in like a bit of a preamp, rather than a dirt source.

Yeah, I believe that PumpkinPieces has had good results doing this with an EQD Monarch to get a bit more of an Orange vibe out of his rig.

[doommeow]

Fryette SAS. Approx $100 @ used.GC

[Dandolin]

Fryette SAS. Approx $100 @ used.GC

This. Cheap awesomeness is cheaply awesome.

Lot's of great suggestions here.

Also, I always felt a cheap but decent compressor set to something a few steps short of chikkin pikkin squish levels has a very nice softening/thickening effect on a "coldish" ss amp without radically change every pedalz' response....

OP--you've got some nice pedals in that chain--do you feel the "Staleness" all the time, or mostly when they are not active (ie bypassed)?

[seabrood]

Fryette SAS. Approx $100 @ used.GC

OP--you've got some nice pedals in that chain--do you feel the "Staleness" all the time, or mostly when they are not active (ie bypassed)?

Mostly just when they are bypassed, it's the amp itself's tone. I've gotten great results from using the OCD as a preamp type thing and the HOF as an always on reverb, but i'll definitely look into the preamps you reccomended! I'm sure I'd prefer those, so that the pedals can be freed up for normal use

[rfurtkamp]

Speakers as noted will be a huge factor getting you where you want to be. The classic "not a practice amp from hell" 80s and 90s SS amp tone you're referencing is JBL-like hi-fi-ish speakers (or their brethren or clones). You *WILL NOT* get there with Celestions or stuff that brings the brutal.

Could also be that the amp itself has very boring EQ. I can sound half-decent on almost anything, but every Peavey I've ever tried is a paperweight soon after getting it and I move on to something else. I just don't like the way their preamps sound or the gain staging flies compared to my reference, make me happy Fender BF-ish or Jazz Chorus.

IF you can't swing a JC120...pro tip.

Look for JC-50, 55, 60. 1x12, built to the same stupid tank levels, < $200. Stereo out for the chorus if you want stereo, same circuit otherwise as the 120 on the chorus/vibe.

[Seance]

I don't know how you're running your Rat, but for years my setup was a Vox Essex 212 bass amp with
a ProCo Rat running into it. If you set the Rat to a low drive setting it can give a lot of the gain curve
you seek—dig in and there is bite, play softer or lower the guitar's volume knob and it cleans up.

And then there are lots of great suggestions in this thread. Low depth Chorus or Tremolo
or something plus a touch of reverb to give a slight quaver to your notes.

I always loved the Roland JC-120, and the smaller cousins to that are all pretty nice.
Good luck!

[Dandolin]

rfurtkamp--do ya like the fuzz into the JC-120 stright up, or do ya find fuzz-into overdrive of choice-into JC to be more satisfying?

[rfurtkamp]

I have exactly one overdrive. It collects dust. If I want dirt, I want to feel it in my brain.

Sounds 100% fine as is. The Jazz Chorus (of any stripe) is what it is, no OD/tube preamp/etc will change the character in a meaningful way. Rule of general thumb on the JC is that "if it sounds good with a Fender-type BF/SF amp, it'll probably sound good with the JC." Caveat is watch the treble, it will go spiky nasty in was that you may love (or just turn it down to taste) because of the speakers. I love them. One of my favorite sounds for studio work was a AB165 Bassman head into a JC's speakers/cab. Was dirt cheap back then ($100 Bassmans all day long in the 90-'97ish period in Chicago if you were patient and trolled the Reader etc), but sounded like God itself. Then I discovered that the Bassman was even better with a 1x15 JBL and letting the JC ride along as its own monster, with a RE-301 Chorus Echo feeding the Bassman to round out the mess.

Back on point though, key on getting good SS sounds is to not start with the absolute budget stuff (and I've never used a Peavey SS guitar amp that wasn't built to just be a throwaway budget item). I'm not sure you will get what you want given your reference sounds out of any Peavey SS amp to be honest, no matter what you through at it.

How loud do you need to get?

[Dandolin]

I feel ya in my brain rfurtkamp. I had a JC120 for a minute or two back in the days of blowing summer job money on gear and then having to sell to pay tuition, but I was in an all clean all the time phaze. Do have many, many fond memories of Fascist Julio and the Stranded Jellyfish sessions with all da scratch'n'skronk you could want from the JC.... God, what a waste of muscle.



andanother thing-or-two-about-a-thing-or-two:

idk why the solution for seabrood necessarily would be to buy a different SS amp, other than the fact that there are a few really fine vintage ones that can go for less money than a lot of pedal solutions, but the fact *is*, sometimes no amount of spectacular peddlage will cure an unsatisfactory amp experience like a different amp will, for all the reasons rfurtkamp so sagaciously proffers. In that spirit I offer the 80s Yamaha G50 and G100--great sounding cleans with truly flexible eq sections beyond what is seen in many amps to this day, and big cojones to deal with the fuzzy subs, and can still be found fairly reliably for less than dos sawbucks and frequently lesss than one, like the G50 I scored in a record store/used gear stockpile in Pottstown, PA a year ago for a large shekel--Twin killing goodness on da cheepz. But shhhh, internet hypez move that price meter up fast like.

[rfurtkamp]

Yep.

My JC-killer when I regeared after my "live under it or sell it" move out here was a Sunn Solos II. They're imaginary beasts, nobody mentions them or even knows about them - my contact at Fender (who'd worked at Sunn since the 70s) couldn't find me a schematic or any repair manual for the thing when it finally blew. But it was loud, clean, vicious (with a built-in fuzz that wrecked and a hell of a trem and reverb circuit and faux JBL speakers)- and for the $100ish it cost, who needed chorus?

But then I found the JC50 languishing in a shop where it'd been since 1990 by the date code on the price tag, and brought it home. Paired with the Hot Rod Deluxe, it's a mini-version of my old live rig. And mixed with the Mustang V with 4x12....I can get lost for days with my signal routing!

[seabrood]

I have exactly one overdrive. It collects dust. If I want dirt, I want to feel it in my brain.

Sounds 100% fine as is. The Jazz Chorus (of any stripe) is what it is, no OD/tube preamp/etc will change the character in a meaningful way. Rule of general thumb on the JC is that "if it sounds good with a Fender-type BF/SF amp, it'll probably sound good with the JC." Caveat is watch the treble, it will go spiky nasty in was that you may love (or just turn it down to taste) because of the speakers. I love them. One of my favorite sounds for studio work was a AB165 Bassman head into a JC's speakers/cab. Was dirt cheap back then ($100 Bassmans all day long in the 90-'97ish period in Chicago if you were patient and trolled the Reader etc), but sounded like God itself. Then I discovered that the Bassman was even better with a 1x15 JBL and letting the JC ride along as its own monster, with a RE-301 Chorus Echo feeding the Bassman to round out the mess.

Back on point though, key on getting good SS sounds is to not start with the absolute budget stuff (and I've never used a Peavey SS guitar amp that wasn't built to just be a throwaway budget item). I'm not sure you will get what you want given your reference sounds out of any Peavey SS amp to be honest, no matter what you through at it.

How loud do you need to get?

I need to get loud enough to keep up with a loud drummer and my other guitarist, who runs a 50 watt JCM800 out of a 212 cab. We play aggressive music so loud is nice, but I care more about it sounding good than being ear-piercingly loud.

[rfurtkamp]

JC50/60 may get you there. It's dumb loud (and speaker is pretty efficient).

But against a JCM800 assuming the dude likes to crank it, not 100% sure it'd keep up if he really opens it up.

A friend's 60 in good repair went for $175 on the bay about a month ago.

But honestly, what you want for that era of music you're referencing is the *right* type of amp - it's as much a part of the sound as going Marshall was for early metal most of the time.

[hbombgraphics]

Maybe some sort of tube preamp might do it for you. Heard good things about the EHX English Muff'n. I'd like to try one of those myself.

it can add noise and runs on weird power
monarch may be a better but
but most of the suggestions are good
anything that can give you a little grit and some extra EQ may help

I play almost all solid state stuff all the time and usually keep an always on dirt pedal or run the dirty channel of the amp cleaned up as much as is allowable

tons of good preamps in pedal form out there
even the behringer sansamp ripoff is pretty cool and gives you a bunch of options

[KaosCill8r]

Maybe some sort of tube preamp might do it for you. Heard good things about the EHX English Muff'n. I'd like to try one of those myself.

Yes... Faustone Valve Klipper does it for me. I run all SS amps, primarily my Ampeg G-212. My VK adds that missing roundness at the front end that would be missing otherwise.

Faustone was out of action for a while, but I think he's back up and running again. I built mine from the schematic, worked out fine. My first high voltage tube project, not for the faint of heart, but I'm really happy with it.





I run it first in line, and everything else after. This into a BMP is awesome, especially when you hit the boost, it makes a Civil War just sing.

At the back end, I used to finish into an SDD3300 for a bit of chorus, but that's been replaced with a Timefactor. Either way, chorus is on everything, whether big or small, it's always on. I find it's the final touch for "lushness".

I have an idea for a valve preamp pedal. But I'm not experienced enough with electronics design to make it happen. Or if it would even work how I think or hope it would work.
But it starts with a Colorsound Overdriver type circuit for the gain section and Baxendall tone stack. Replace the clipping section with a 12ax7 valve and set the master volume at a fixed setting. Then run that circuit into a Valvcaster type circuit with the tonestack removed, for a gain boost and the master volume section. I'm guessing that you would get something that would almost get into valve boost all the way into valve fuzz territory I'm just speculating here.
Is this kind of thing something you would have fun experimenting with Dino?

[braaandooon]

Yep.

My JC-killer when I regeared after my "live under it or sell it" move out here was a Sunn Solos II. They're imaginary beasts, nobody mentions them or even knows about them - my contact at Fender (who'd worked at Sunn since the 70s) couldn't find me a schematic or any repair manual for the thing when it finally blew. But it was loud, clean, vicious (with a built-in fuzz that wrecked and a hell of a trem and reverb circuit and faux JBL speakers)- and for the $100ish it cost, who needed chorus?

But then I found the JC50 languishing in a shop where it'd been since 1990 by the date code on the price tag, and brought it home. Paired with the Hot Rod Deluxe, it's a mini-version of my old live rig. And mixed with the Mustang V with 4x12....I can get lost for days with my signal routing!

Sucks I'm moving out amps, there's a sunn solos II w/ a 15" not to far from me, dude wants an arm and a leg for it and won't budge on the price it's clean as hell to, but $450 seems steep on the price.

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/msg/5050563427.html