Refused.

[echodeluxe]

I FUCKING HATE REFUSED.

[echodeluxe]

i'm wearing a refused t shirt right now.

[casecandy]

Okay, I actually read the sentence "TSOPTC is pretty overrated" in this thread, and that's... I mean, you know there are bad people out there, but you just wanna believe in a better world, you know?

*crying softly into Jawbreaker t-shirt*

I mean, it's sort of the hardcore version of OK Computer -- an album that gets cited all the time as being hugely influential, but is it, really?

Unlike OK Computer, though, you can listen to the first two minutes of TSOHTC, get it, and never have to listen to it again.

I have been trying to formulate some kind of sensical response to this post and just keep erasing it. I guess what I want to say is, bruh, do you even post-hardcore?!

TSOPTC is one of a handful of elite post-hardcore records that virtually every single band playing heavy punk music of any kind today is either consciously or unconsciously aping in one way or another. It breathes the same rare air as The Relationship of Command, 13 Songs, Worship & Tribute, Bless The Martyr & Kiss The Child, and a handful of others.

The way that Dennis Lyxzen sings informs all "screamo" vocals after it (you might say, "to come"): broken, adolescent, but never quite clean, full of rage. Check out the sound of the vocals in Defeater, Touche Amore, La Dispute, and you'll see where they come from!

But the most important aspect of the album is the way that it blends disparate genres and elements together. Electronic music had never been blended with post-hardcore, not in that way. You can't have Underoath, The Used, Enter Shikari, Asking Alexandria, any of that stuff, if you don't have TSOPTC first.

I can even point to specific examples of songs that came from specific other songs on the album. For example, can you tell me that "Short Stories With Tragic Endings" by From Autumn To Ashes doesn't owe everything to "Tannhäuser/Derivé"? Or that Underoath weren't directly paying homage to "Brutist Pome #5" when they included "The Blue Note," an electronic interlude, on 2004's They're Only Chasing Safety?

Don't take my word for it. In a 2007 interview Patrick Stump of Fall Out Boy cited as the band's two greatest influences, Shape of Punk To Come, and Michael Jackson's Thriller. That same year, Paramore sampled "Liberation Frequency" in their song "Born for This."

If you were born in the 1980s like I was, well, for a lot of people, Refused was the first serious heavy music we heard, outside of Korn or Limp Bizkit or whatever. And if you play punk music then yeah, you understand that, that prophecy came true... it really was the shape of punk to come... I have listened to it a hundred times and still don't totally get it. So there *blows raspberry*

Man... MAN... is the new stuff shit though

[D.o.S.]

I'm aware of what TSOHTC did -- sold a few records and inspired a lot of not-very-good bands. Relationship of Command is the only good post-hardcore record. 13 Songs is classic as well, which means it has no place in this discussion (and also predates the era of this conversation).

You're talking about Underoath and From Autumn To Ashes, Fall Out Boy, and Paramore. And Glassjaw. While this is a very charming nostalgia trip to trying to bang scene girls a decade ago, the fact remains that all those bands are garbage -- you missed out on Thursday, which would have completed the bad taste pentagram. When I refer to something as influential, I usually mean it with a positive connotation, not a bad one.

In conclusion, punks should have been ripping off Spazz instead. Refused is hella overrated, all those bands you listed suck except for Fugazi and At the Drive In, and no one should listen to them ever.

[casecandy]

We're just going to have to disagree... fundamentally, we're different music listeners.

Thursday were incredible. "Understanding in a Car Crash" is one of the best songs by any band ever, any genre.

And Glassjaw... honestly, W&T makes TSOPTC look weak. I live for that record. "Two Tabs Of Mescaline" is, definitively, my jam.

I was not at all trying to bang scene girls... I met my wife when I was 18 (didn't marry her until we were 22, but anyway), and she gave me all that music. To me that music has nothing to do with girls... it's personal music... I feel it.

I know I have the whole "OrMat boner" going on (to use your phrase) and love doom with all my heart but I'd take post-hardcore from 1995-present over every metal genre ever without thinking about it.

[casecandy]

SPAZZ was overrated. And all the bands they influenced were only okay, too. (I'm lookin' at you, The Locust.)

(But I dig 'em.)

[D.o.S.]

Okay>Trash, and La Revancha>Shape of Punk to come (I don't care for The Locust).



(but seriously Thursday are so bad. Always have been, always will be. Its entirely arguable that, on a musical level, the worst thing about 9/11 was that it directly lead to the creation of Thursday).

[casecandy]

Okay, what is it you find so objectionable about that band in particular?

[D.o.S.]

They are bad. QED.

[casecandy]

LOL... okay, like I said, agree to disagree.

P.S. Formed in 1997... not a result of 9/11.

I think you're thinking of Thursday-influenced My Chemical Romance... practically my favourite band, that.

Their first song was about 9/11.

Like... I just don't get not liking Thursday. If I could be at any concert, I'd go to a really good show in Geoff Rickley's basement circa 2000 or so.

I always thought of him as an absolute hero and an example of how one person who believes in music can create a scene...

NJ hardcore is, like, my LIFE.

You must like Saves The Day, right? Tell me you're not gonna hate on Saves The Day.

[DarkAxel]

CC, don't get too deep. There's scarcely a way back... Especially when not being able to accept people have different opinions and getting panties in a bunch

ps:

a very charming nostalgia trip to trying to bang scene girls a decade ago

what a legendary formulation

[D.o.S.]

Indifferent to Saves the Day, but you're absolutely bringing up all sorts of awful bands that totally ruined punk music. I bet you like Brand New, too (who are also yucky). By the time that stuff was becoming ubiquitous I just kept my Fugazi albums and stopped paying attention.

[neonblack]

Let's just talk about the blood brothers for a second, guys.

[D.o.S.]

[Iommic Pope]

Man, it sure got full of butthurt in here.