Mindbender Time--Filter edition

[Dandolin]

OK, well this is bending my mind right naow, but maybe there are some genii among us who can set me straight.

What's the difference between a fuzz in a filter's effect loop and a filter in a fuzz's loop? Cuz I heard there was some fonk peoples who like fuzz on their filter so much that they figured out how to put fuzz IN their ilfter.

I like it dirty too. :surprise:

Suppoooosably, putting the fuzz in the filter instead of after it gives you the advantage of more triggering dynamics, but the good groove that comes when the fuzz follows the filter instead of pokin' it in the inpush. Talkin' envelope filters here, natch. On autoharp gitaar, cuz that's what I'm playin'.

Suppoooosably, that's what's goin on inside the Octasynth, which I likes, but since I got all kindz of fuzz already, I start looking at wonderloves and agent funks and schemin'....

(and I do realize that a large part of the magick of the Octasynth is in the lower octave generation, but let's leave that aside for now).

But I'm not reeeally feelin it wit dem filters so I keep buying moar fuzz instead (and no Octasynth. I know ).


Then I notice that there's some fuzzoids that has an fx loop. I'm good at buyin' fuzzes, I think to myself--I should buy a fuzz with an fx loop and chuck my envelope filter in it.

But, well, should I?

[Tristan]

I personally wouldn't go the fx loop route because it doesn't do much in my opinion and only makes your setup less flexible if you use the fx loop because that way you can't use your filter on your clean signal anymore.

However I usually do prefer running filters after my drive / dirt / fuzz.
It just sounds more synthy and way heavier that way, especially if there's a lowpass setting on your filter.

As for the Wonderlove, I wouldn't recommend it as it's really expensive and I find it's a bit weak sounding, my Xerograph Deluxe killed it.
Some other ones that are supposed to be good are the AF9, Discumbobulator and the Robotalk 2 but I haven't tried those yet.

[Dandolin]

Thanks, mang.


Sounds like wisdom. Will check out some'o'dose.

Do you know of any good demos where either a guitar w/octave-down fuzz (or octave down plus fuzz) or bass w/fuzz gets that "octasynthy" fat-w/out-run-away-squelch toan? A lot of the fuzz/filter combos I'm hearing have way more high frequency sqrawnch than I'm wanting. I had wondered if there was something in the loopage that helped rein that in--but I suppose it's mostly down to the settings: defo lpf all the way for what I want, I think, with out too much filter movement on the attack.

I do tend to be attracted to the over-complicated solution.

I need to dig out my auld Sound Tank AW5-I remember that sounding my kind'o'synthy on the bass side of ye frequency sweep range knobby. One of the reasons I think they were generally despised was because they were considered boring because they didn't bring much squelch at all so people thought they were basically broken out of the box.

I've been toying with the idea of rehousing my dusty Dano French toast and Chili Dog in a single box withe the AW5 at the end of that big box chain, but maybe I should just throw them in a micro looper so I can activate them all with one stomp and keep them the eff out'o'ma chain when I'm not calling Ghostbusters....

[BoatRich]

Moog MF101 or some of the Xotic ones could probably do it? I have a Brain Freeze that could definitely do that sound but it doesn't have an envelope generator

[Dandolin]

Yaz--Moog--the Mother Filter. Forgot it did envelope. Thanks! Interested in the Brain Freeze--are they legacy now, seems like Martone/Robot Factory may be gonzo?

[Dandolin]

This is a brain fart, but my mis-informed/malformed braining on the MF101 made me think of something I'd thought of before--how genius would it be if some genius could make an FilterHugger--a stand-alone, maybe loop? with maybe cv generator? that could move the filter center freq w/ your attack envelope on an otherwise jawesome sounding filter that only had knobbies or just an expression in? Is that magical thinking? Or could it be Scienced? Did I hear something about Source Audio maybe making retrofit boards to allow external control of knob functions on units w/out cv in?

How do cv envelope generators work? Would a cv generated envelope/cv generated by envelope input into a filters cv input thingy sound the same as an envelope filter?

Well, genii? Why no FilterHugger naow?

[autopilot]

consider not all fuzzes are equal, some like being pushed and some wont, so there's no a law, also not all filters are equal, there are many ways and only experimentation can let you decide what is best for your sonic path.

[autopilot]

cv signal, is just voltage flowing with some sort of shape/movement that allows to control certain value/parameter (or multiple to sync - to respond and interact in certain way) externally/internally. It can be in envelope/Attack Decay, Trigger/Gate or Repetitive (lfo), a pattern (sequencer). The advantage is that you can patch many parameters and control more parameters while you tweak one parameter.

For example you can set a envelope, to control the intensity of the fuzz, and also set the feedback on a delay (and probably set if the feedback increases or decreases when the cv signal goes from low to high (or vice versa) and adjust the cutoff or the resonance of the filter, all being sync from one cv source, everytime you trigger the envelope and you have the specific pedal on it will react

[Dandolin]

I'm beginning to see the light....

Plus, with autopilot's help, this thread is gettin' a lil mindbending (for me at least).

[autopilot]

also with cv you can control a cv source that control another cv source, expanding the options, so you can for example have the envelope controlling couple of pedals, but you could control the envelope via a lfo that is changing the envelope release time, so while you are playing and triggering the envelope the lfo is increasing the release time, so even if you play exactly the same (attack and notes) the sound is also changing in real time.

[Dark Barn]

I personally wouldn't go the fx loop route because it doesn't do much in my opinion and only makes your setup less flexible if you use the fx loop because that way you can't use your filter on your clean signal anymore.

However I usually do prefer running filters after my drive / dirt / fuzz.
It just sounds more synthy and way heavier that way, especially if there's a lowpass setting on your filter.

As for the Wonderlove, I wouldn't recommend it as it's really expensive and I find it's a bit weak sounding, my Xerograph Deluxe killed it.
Some other ones that are supposed to be good are the AF9, Discumbobulator and the Robotalk 2 but I haven't tried those yet.

If you have a filter with an FX loop you can still filter your clean sound, but anything in the loop will be dependent on the filter engaged. Which is still limiting but in a different way.

[coldbrightsunlight]

As far as I understand envelope filter FX loops what it does is use the dynamics of your clean signal as the trigger but still have the filter ocurring AFTER the fuzz in the chain. That way you can still have an interesting and responsive filter with a fuzz that squashes your dynamics.

I've got a meatball and using fuzz in the loop of that sounds dope (as does the meatball generally, it's an amazing filter).

[Tristan]

He meant the other way, a fuzz with an fx loop, or so I understood.

[Dandolin]

Yaz--was wondering about flipping that standard equation on its head. 'course the best way to find out is by trying, but I ain' t got no. Also, I think my sloth brain caught up with the science, and I see why the fuzz w/ fx loop wouldn't be much help. Still pondering whether pursuing ilfter w/ fx loop is a worthy pursuit for me. I tend to like my envelope filters to open slow and not super wide (less filter movement). That or oscillate like a banshee in heat. All that fonkay middle ground leaves me cold. Thus my attraction to the Octasynth in its tamer FM settings. So basically, I'm answering my own question here since sensitivity isn't at a premium for me, I'm probably ok with running filter and fuzz separately and tuning to taste.

[Dark Barn]

Oh! Weird. Fuzz with an FX loop? You're right he did mean that. I didn't know that was even a thing!