Watts and loudness question (I'm sorry)

[PeteeBee]

Basic question: will running two identical amps be twice as loud? I've read so many places online about +3db and +6db and perceived volume, but I still don't know for sure.

So at home I jam on a micro terror with a 2x12. I really love the tone from I. There is only really one setting I love, but it's really great. Volume 100%, tone dead in the middle, gain to taste. At the practice spot I have a peavey musician 400 that I like for the low end, but it doesn't really ever sound good without pedals. I'm considering if I just get another micro and another cab and run them in a stereo setup it might be way better for me. The other alternative is just buy a whole other amp entirely, of which I really just want a hellhawk, but this will take some serious being in the doghouse I think...

Any thoughts, or suggestions, or other amp ideas? I know there are a bajillion amps. I'd rather not go used because I seem to have the worst luck with used gear.

[frigid midget]

What other amps have you tried? Like you said, there's countless of amps out there that you might like, maybe even a lot more than the Micro Terror. Which I'm not at all saying isn't a good amp. But I would think there's a lot of choice between the Micro Terror and a $1600 Hell hawk

Totally just my personal view, but in your case I'd go with one GREAT amp, instead of two okay ones. Unless you want to keep one amp at your rehearsal spot that is, and one at home.

I don't know the physics of percieved loudness and calculation db's and all that...But I would think that a second Micro Terror would indeed give you twice as much fire power.
Again though, at the risk of sounding like a whise-ass or a snob, I'd just look around a little more for alternatives if I were you, instead of making do with two small solid state rigs...

Good luck!

[albertjq]

as it seems you've discovered, there are many factors that contribute to loudness and volume
I try to avoid thinking of things in this manner, because volume is rarely a question 'how much' and much more often 'is it enough'
it would be difficult to say if it is twice as loud. In this particular scenario, I would say that the perceived volume would not be twice as loud.

more importantly, however, I feel that you should get the hellhawk
it is truly a different experience playing out of a well built and powerful amp
you will no longer worry about such things as 'volume' and you may spend less in the long run

plus

you deserve the experience
don't you?

[goroth]

A second one won't be twice as loud.

You're best bet is to get a speaker with a crazy high efficiency rating. Perhaps an oversized 2x12 with EVM12Ls in it, or whatever the Eminence version is. That way you will be converting more of each watt in your amp into loud noises.

[fcknoise]

Just a few thoughts on this:

If you like the micro terror, maybe take a look at a few stronger orange amps? I don't keep super good track of orange amps and prices, but I bet there are a few people here who can help you out in that department.

You say yer olde peavey doesn't sound good without pedals, which indicates that you like the sound of it with pedals, am I correct? Or is using pedals something you'd rather not do? If you dig the orange sound and already have an amp with lotsa headroom and low end, the orange pre-amp thing there was a thread about might work for you?

EDIT: found the thread for you viewtopic.php?f=149&t=46407

[Muff_Diver]

Why not just get a slave amp and run the micro terror through that? Plenty of 100 watters available for less than all your other options.

edit: louder/higher sensitivity speakers, as goroth suggested, will also increase/allow for overall loudness. 100 watts into a speaker with a 102 spl will be way louder than 100 watts into a speaker with a 96 spl.

[PeteeBee]

Wow. Thanks for these suggestions. I don't know how slave amps work unfortunately. Do I just plug my amp output into it and it multiplies it?

I have never once thought of amps in an "I deserve it way," but I kind of like it. Kind of goes along with the notion I discovered lately that just because I'm not the greatest guitar player and just do this for fun doesn't mean I can't take it totally serious.

I've tried some amps, not lots. Friends have mesas, bunch of fenders, couple Marshall's. I think that's it other than tiny starter pack combos.

I like the peavey decently with some pedals but still less than micro without any. I'll do some research on slave amps and think if I do really deserve a great amp or not.

[Muff_Diver]

eeeeeee didnt do my research. Doesnt look like the micro terror has a line out for slaving. Slave amps work by combining the preamp from one amp and putting that through a much larger power amp (slave amp). by doing so you get the "tone" of the preamp with the power/loudness from the slave. An attenuator like a thd hot plate would add the line out capabilities, but that starts to make the solution a bit convoluted.

Everyone deserves a great amp If you like the micro, check out the bigger stuff orange has to offer.

[PeteeBee]

Well that's the weird part. I don't know why I didn't mention this, but I've played a tiny terror, rockerverb, and thunderverb. This was a while ago, but I had a hard time getting them to sit where I like them, broken up but not a ton. I don't really need a clean tone at all, just a really articulate overdriven one that I can then make less articulate as I desire. Tiny terror seemed to loose and acdc, the others too modern/quick to mega gain/just made me want to chug. Don't get me wrong, I do plenty of chugging, but I like that to be a stage of gain that gets me there, not where I start.

[hbombgraphics]

I think you can run the speaker out of the orange into a DI with a parallel out and right into the front of the peavey,
Behringer makes these for around 25 dollars.

I can test it out tonight and make sure the line out works that way. Map out connections and such

You could also run the headphone out of your orange and just use that head as a preamp.

I only run a 15 watt amp live now, I just run a line out into a DI and right to the house system

The nice thing about running a smaller wattage amp with a line out is that the sounds I get practicing are the same sounds I get live, might be part of the issue you are having now is that sounds don't always work well transferring from home to practice to stage.

[goroth]

Nah, the speaker out is different to a line out. The speaker out needs a load, so you could definitely do what you said, but you'd need a dummy load. This I think is the best solution as you'd get the sound of the power amp as well. Palmer makes a great dummy load/Di.

But still, I'd test more efficient speakers. You need to double power to get a 3dB increase in output.

I dunno what your 2x12 has, but greenbacks are rated at 98dB, v30s at 100dB.

Eminence red fangs are rated at 103 dB, swamp thangs at 102 dB. Wizard is 103dB. Any one of them will deliver a significant increase in loudness.

[PeteeBee]

Cab has v30s in it. I'm hesitant to rely on the PA because lots of gigs in town here have a tiny/crappy one, which I don't mind at all, but I just really don't want to count on it for my sound.

[hbombgraphics]

Cab has v30s in it. I'm hesitant to rely on the PA because lots of gigs in town here have a tiny/crappy one, which I don't mind at all, but I just really don't want to count on it for my sound.

Understood,
Master slave seems like an OK idea

The micro has a solid state power amp section so I can duplicate the setup pretty easily at home

I think it would let you get the orange toanz through the peavey

[goroth]

Cab has v30s in it. I'm hesitant to rely on the PA because lots of gigs in town here have a tiny/crappy one, which I don't mind at all, but I just really don't want to count on it for my sound.

Any of the Eminences should give you the equivalent of a 40 watt amp then. Give or take.

They're pretty cheap and good speakers anyway (I hate v30s so I would say that anything is better than v30s.. .haha).

Keen to hear how hbomb's experiment works.

[hbombgraphics]

Cab has v30s in it. I'm hesitant to rely on the PA because lots of gigs in town here have a tiny/crappy one, which I don't mind at all, but I just really don't want to count on it for my sound.

Any of the Eminences should give you the equivalent of a 40 watt amp then. Give or take.

They're pretty cheap and good speakers anyway (I hate v30s so I would say that anything is better than v30s.. .haha).

Keen to hear how hbomb's experiment works.

Oh it will work!!!!

I don't have a micro any more, but I have a marshall Lead 15 solid state head that should do the trick

Just realizing now, DI box is still plugged into my amp at rehearsal space but I think I can grab it tonight no problem

I gotta read up a bit on how the parallel out on the behringer works but I am almost positive it will take a speaker load and output a speaker load
should be pretty simple I think