school me on delay!

[CyaNitrate]

You guys, and ILF in general, are just the best. Great advice, honest opinions, and no noob bashing

Welp. The music store idea is pretty well out, because unless you're in Phoenix, music shops are pretty rare in AZ.
And if it counts, I have run the synth through my RP155 and and built in amp dsp...cheesy, but it's there. I just can't get into using it as an actual instrument rather than a fun toy. 9 times out of 10, I grab my guitar first, so I'd like to expand what I can do on front.
Now I've got a bunch of research, demos, and reviews to go through..

[CyaNitrate]

So I may have spoken too hastily about the music shop thing, because the one local mom and pop shop happens to have a Boss Waza Craft delay...I plugged into it, and it...delayed. Apparently the original is legendary or something, but having no frame of reference, I can't say whether it was good or not..$179 seemed steep. I dunno. I suppose I need toplay more. They also had a DD-7 for $175 and a Flashback for $169. Ran out of time and didn't get to play those though.

[Uncle Grandfather]

You should check out effectsdatabase.com and search though the delays. They link demos and eBay listings too. Great site. For a first delay I'd look into one that allows modulation on the repeats, that's a cool feature. AN f/x loop is also awesome, you can effect the repeats only with another pedal(s). The Fairfield Meet Maude comes to mind, it has modulation and an f/x loop.

[kbit]

So I may have spoken too hastily about the music shop thing, because the one local mom and pop shop happens to have a Boss Waza Craft delay...I plugged into it, and it...delayed. Apparently the original is legendary or something, but having no frame of reference, I can't say whether it was good or not..$179 seemed steep. I dunno. I suppose I need toplay more. They also had a DD-7 for $175 and a Flashback for $169. Ran out of time and didn't get to play those though.

Go back and plug all three in if you can, compare all three side by side. will give you a better frame of reference as far was sound goes.

isthere any music you listen to that has a delay sound you really like?

[CyaNitrate]

The only two that come to mind off the top of my head are the intros to Welcome to the Jungle and Cowboys from Hell...I wan't really into any bands that used a bunch of delay when I started playing, which is why fifteen years later I've still not owned one. Zeppelin, Hendrix, Ac/Dc, and later Pantera, Metallica, etc... I went from classic rock to metal, so usually some form of distortion and a wah got me there. It wasn't until the last five years or so when I started getting into fuzz, doom, stoner rock, sludge, playing slow instead of as fast as possible, and last but not least, clean. Now that I've started writing, I want to add more to my tonal pallet. Perhaps my lack of "traditional/normal' delay upbringing is why the weird stuff appeals to me. Like, after playing the Waza, I looked it up, and according to write-ups I apparently was supposed to be blown away by it, but it was just ok. I think one with some sort of modulation, as mentioned, is gonna be the ticket. Off to effectsdatabase!

[MEC]

The Akai Headrush is pretty rad and hard to pass up for $65:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Akai-Profession ... 487ab4e3d9

There's also a Malekko Lo-Fi in the B/S/T for $90:
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=46510&p=940273&hil ... ko#p940273

[K2000]

Line 6 DL-4 does a lot of different delays. Biggest downside is the size and weight. If that's not a big issue for you, it will give you tons of options and flexibility. Good way to audition many different types of delays.

[rfurtkamp]

The artists you mention all used large quantities of available delay for their time - Echoplex etc is all over Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc.

[CyaNitrate]

That's true, I suppose I just wasn't interested...I hated all things fender, particularly strats, because single coils were wimpy, and who plays clean? Hahaha..how naive I was. All distortion all the time. Now I play a tele and strat nearly exclusively. Into a fender amp. Usually with fuzz, but I appreciate clean now too. Tastes change, which is part of me branching out into time based effects.

[goroth]

I think the waza craft delay is outstanding, fwiw. Dd-7 is also great - it's my favourite digital delay.

[CyaNitrate]

Why is it outstanding? What makes it so? Worth nearly 200 bones?

[goroth]

I think it is a really good example of THE analogue delay sound. The DM-2 was one of the earlier pedals to use a BBD to create a delay signal, what we now refer to as an analogue delay, and I think the Boss engineers did a good job of trying to design the cleanest possible delay around the limitations of the technology at the time. BBDs are kinda crap in audio terms - they are noisy, and for every millisecond of delay time they get noisier, and the longer the delay the less fidelity you have. As far as I can tell, not being alive when the first BBD delays were released, they weren't trying to be lofi or anything they were trying to design a modern compact thing that could do the same thing as the early digital rack stuff could.
Anyways, that's a long story. Lots of manufacturers made analogue delays - EHX, MXR, Boss, Maxon. They're all pretty similar and they're all pretty nice. The DM-2, after it was reverse engineered, became the basis for a lot of the boutique analogue delays on the market.

I think the DM-2w is good because it has that sound, extremely well engineered and well built, without the price tags and reliability issues of the vintage models, or indeed many of the boutique offerings based on it. So relative to the alternatives, it is good value.

However it's still pretty bloody expensive.

And I don't think my answer actually explained anything.

Ok: the real question is what do you want in a delay?
The variables you've got are:

1. Max delay time
2. The sound of the delays relative to the original signal
3. The decay of the delays
4. The relationship between the delaytime and the tempo of the music you are making
5. And because it's ILF, does the delay oscillate, and if so, how controllable/uncontrollable the oscillation is.

1. Is governed by the technology used. Typically an analogue delay will get you 300ms cleanish, 400ms when pushed, and multiples of 300 when multiple chips are used. PT delays get around 300ms clean, pushed out to up to 600ms, or more for shitty repeats (in the good sense of the word). Pretty much all boutique delays around 600ms in delay time will be pt chips. Digital: Anything around 1 second, with limited control over the delay, is likely a Spin FV-1. Pretty popular chip that you can do heaps of cool stuff with. Anything over 1 second is likely more advanced digital stuff.
2. Digital delays can do an exact repeat of what you play, or anything else under the sun. Analogue and PT delays will reproduce a crusty version of what you've played. In my experience really clear delays are hard to work with as they tend to stick out too much and obscure what you or other band members are playing. But they are good for playing over top of yourself on short loops, or slap back stuff, or I guess if you want your delays to smash the other instruments, including your own. Delays that are too dark are cool at home, but tend to get lost in the mix. Which might be want you want if you want like ambient pad sounds or something. So in my little world a great delay offers some loss of fidelity, both high and low end, but no too much. This loss can be achieved by the limitations of the technology, or by a tone control. I would not recommend getting a really dark delay as it's easier to get a too bright delay to sit a little lower in the mix than trying to raise a too dark delay in the mix. But again, this is going to depend on what you want to do with your delay.
3. Some delays will decay quickly - that is the repeats will lose their volume or fidelity quite quickly, others won't. (I mean, regardless of where the feedback knob is. The last repeat of a digital delay like the Guyatone MD-3 is going to be waaaay closer to what the input signal was than the last repeat on an analogue delay like the Meet Maude). Also, sometimes the loss of fidelity (tone) will be recursive - each delay gets darker/shittier or whatever - or it will be a filter on the whole delay line - like the tone control on the Dr Scientist BitQuest. This will mean that each delay is eq'd exactly as the repeat before it was.
4. Some people want their repeats to be in time to everything. Check out Kayzer's delay demos. He pretty much always plays with his delays in time, which creates some nice harmonies and what not. Some people want their delays to be in time, but in the gaps where you aren't playing. Classic example is dotted eighth repeats like the Edge. The last variety is the person who just sets a "nice" delay time and uses it regardless of what tempo they are playing. This means some repeats will stick out a bit, some will clash a bit and some will be drowned in the mix. Depending on where everything falls. If you are in a band situation and want to do either of the first two you will either need tap tempo or midi sync if you use midi, or you'll have to get your drummer to play to your delays. If you're after the latter then you don't need tap tempo.
5. Oscillation can be fun, and not just in the "the song is ending, lets turn up the feedback on the delay and then fuck with the delay time oh wow I'm super sweet" way. You can ride oscillation to create synthy pads, or swells, you can let it build up slowly over the course of a passage or you can build it up fast and destroy your notes. If oscillation is important you'll want to learn how that particular delay oscillates, and work out if you want expression control over the feedback, or if you want a delay with a momentary switch to increase the feedback.
6. It wasn't on my original list, but modulation of the repeats. Many delays that simulate tape delay will have some sort of warble on the repeats mimicing a tape slowing and speeding up - every time you change the speed of a repeat you will change the pitch of the repeat. This can be subtle or extreme (check out the Midfi Pitch Pirate Deluxe to see what can happen when you modulate the speed fast enough that the pitch bends over an octave.

That's pretty much all I can think of. There are heaps of great delays out there, but I'd reccomend the following:
1. Get a delay that has some loss of fidelity on the repeats. Don't get a super dark delay. That will get you something that sits well enough in the mix, and depending on what your experience tells you you can either go for something dark, or get a cleaner digital sound.
2. Unless you know you want a modulated delay line (warbly repeats or wacky repeats) get a delay that either isn't modulated, or where you can turn it off.
3. Tap tempo or not is up to how you want to use it. You can do things with tap tempo that are difficult or impossible to do without tap tempo, but you don't need tap tempo to have a rad delay sound.

I've got a bunch of likes and dislikes about delays but that's pretty much all small differences. In broad strokes you can probably get any of the less specialised delay pedals and be super happy with it. When you mentioned the Meet Maude in your OP I thought you were looking to drop 300 usd on an analogue delay, and in that case it is my no. 1 choice. But otherwise, fuck it. Get something cheaper and less specialised.

My revised picks: Super simple delay: Boss DD-3. Or an MXR carbon copy. They represent for me two extremes - the DD-3 is a bright digital delay, but due to the shitty AD/DA it loses some fidelity and sits nicely in a mix. And the Carbon Copy is about as dark as you can get to sit properly in a mix. Both are easy to dial in and can be found second hand with ease.
A little more fancy: Boss DD-7 or maybe one of those TC Flashbacks. Never used the latter, but the former is a staple on my board. Does tap temp, has a 40 second looper, etc. The modulated delay on it sucks though. Hmm. Maybe the Hardwire Dl-8. That is another delay that rules.

Get anything cheap and second hand and play with it in lots of contexts so you can work out what you want out of a delay.

Edit: none of the above will get weird. You can do some cool stutter stuff with the DD-3, or oscillation fun with the carbon copy. But I'd look for a basic delay first and then go for the wacky wacky fun time.

[fcknoise]

Dat post

Wish I had that help when buying my first delay

[hbombgraphics]

Dat post

Wish I had that help when buying my first delay

Anyone buying a first delay should read that post.

I was lucky, my first delay was given to me
it was in my brother - in - laws junk box

ibanez dl10 that I still have,

has survived a flood and a time in my life where I decided to hot glue gun all my pedals down

Aside from reading Goroth's primer on delays borrowing a few cheap delays to goof off with might be a good step in figuring out what you want.
(Psssst.......I would loan you one psssssst)

[fcknoise]

Something I find when trying out new kinds of effects is that it's a lot easier to find out what you want when you have a starting point. If you have a possibility to borrow delays I'd say go for it