very thoughtful TGP post by David Torn about looper pedals

[rfurtkamp]

Yea, I never bothered with a Space Station even when you couldn't give them away for the lack of editing.

Timebender I've always been mystified by its lack of success but it's one of the few boxes I paid new when it was bleeding edge retail for and still don't feel cheated by years later.

[The_Active_Conundrum]

After reading all this stuff I, I wish I could be as passionate about loopers. I guess I'm too ignornt to use them? Or have too little sense of time? Freeze/Superego is more my thing with chord/melody work.

Also: Dinosaur Dick Bone is a great Bandname. I will buy their album.

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

i think the crazy looper these ppl are looking for does exist. its called the octatrack and its made by elektron.

[sonidero]

KP3 will do most of what he wants too...

[ChetMagongalo]

i think the crazy looper these ppl are looking for does exist. its called the octatrack and its made by elektron.

couldn't he buy this and like a midi controller with stomp pedals and be set?

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

yea for sure, many times over. the octatrack is stupid deep.

[ChetMagongalo]

I just watched their video for it, that thing is really tight, it seems really intuitive too. seems like they really covered all the bases.

[sonidero]

But I can't play it with my feet...

[echodeluxe]

yikes.

[misterstomach]

i didn't get what he was trying to say at all, except that he's not happy with modern loopers, but i don't even know why. maybe i should be on acid to really "get" that post. looooopers, dude.

[tjlong]

it wasnt very coherent but i think his main points were:

1) samplers and sequencers are better than loop pedals
2) loop pedals should be more like samplers and sequencers.

it sounds like he wants someone to make a foot-triggered Octatrack/MPC/SP404 that lets him sample, process, and sequence guitar live. Which is something I've wondered about as well so if this is indeed what he is saying, i agree that something like that doesnt exist for guitar, not that i am aware of anyways.

i think the issue he maybe has not considered is demand/marketability. Guitarists in general i think tend to consider looping as a means to substitute a band. Layering beats, bass lines, underlying chords, that kind of thing. When the Ditto X2 came out, the change that got alot of attention - was a separate stop button. Maybe something with the processing and sequencing ability of, say, an Octatrack would overwhelm alot of guitarists and might not sell well.

[Faldoe]

More multi track loopers need the ability to have the tracks seperated from a master clock, or have sweet time divisions off of a master clock.

And it would be sweet if loopers had effect loops for processing.

I think the Mobius software looper can do that.

Really at this point I think the answer is already here and has been here and that is software loopers with computers.

I know that brings up all the requisite hardware discussions; computer, audio interface, etc.

If someone already has a decent laptop they're already many steps there.

I've been using Ableton live's loopers for sometime and that offers lots of options. I may try to use Mobius more because of all the things it can do. Unlike the Echoplex Digital Pro which the software is modeled after, Mobius can do multiple loops simultaneously, in sync or out of sync with each other. Plus all kinds of loop dividing.

[rfurtkamp]

i didn't get what he was trying to say at all, except that he's not happy with modern loopers, but i don't even know why. maybe i should be on acid to really "get" that post. looooopers, dude.

He's referencing how the device category has changed as much as anything else. The units he mention don't *just* loop in the one shot and done approach of the Ditto. I'd have cried if you told me that's what people would accept as "looping" in the 90s too, even if I'd have killed for *anything* at $100 that did it. And $100 was a lot more then, insert uphill in your mom in the snow joke here.

Outside of the colors, which I get is probably tailored to *that* particular audience, he's very concise but you have to understand the reference points he's operating from.

If you don't know the sounds of those units, you don't get why he's angry.

It's the same reason I am still running a bunch of 20+ year old now rack gear - it's not for vintage cache, it's because the new stuff doesn't do what the old stuff did in the slightest, and most importantly, give you that level of control.

Sure, it's great to dial something in and go with it (and I do that every single day), but there are times I want to refine it, and today's noise-making devices (not just loopers) do the noise without the control.

[Gone Fission]

It's a hardware complaint, you gotta understand. I'm sure DT is fully aware of what's happening in software. But doing guitar live with an interface and laptop still isn't horrendously reliable. There's something to a purpose made box. This is why a lot of folks here have a bunch of pedals that could be recreated or exceeded with a similar laptop rig. Rolling your own control/interface system for software is beyond most guitarists.

It's not a begrudging of cheap and useful hardware. It's more like "we had hover cars int the 80s. Why are we back to white-walls and tail fins? I want my flying fucking car!"

[rfurtkamp]

Yep. And the software thing is also "will it work in a year? Three years? When the next software patch hits my PC?"

I don't invest much time or money in something that won't last - because software never, ever does.