very thoughtful TGP post by David Torn about looper pedals

[ApeLincoln]

I think MOST guitarists including myself are satisfied with the options available today. If you're not, you're in the minority, and you're probably gonna have to DIY or shell out a lot of money.

I think that's sort of his point though isn't it? That most guitarists are content, although he seems to think that we are satisfied because we can only imagine what the big companies are willing to show us. Which I find pretty condescending and wrong, I think it has more to do with the fact that we want to play our guitar as an instrument and not play our looper as an instrument.

I'm plenty happy with my ditto and 2880 and I don't feel like it's keeping me from making any of the music I want to make?

[kbit]

More multi track loopers need the ability to have the tracks seperated from a master clock, or have sweet time divisions off of a master clock.

And it would be sweet if loopers had effect loops for processing.

[ChetMagongalo]

I think MOST guitarists including myself are satisfied with the options available today. If you're not, you're in the minority, and you're probably gonna have to DIY or shell out a lot of money.

I think that's sort of his point though isn't it? That most guitarists are content, although he seems to think that we are satisfied because we can only imagine what the big companies are willing to show us. Which I find pretty condescending and wrong, I think it has more to do with the fact that we want to play our guitar as an instrument and not play our looper as an instrument.

I'm plenty happy with my ditto and 2880 and I don't feel like it's keeping me from making any of the music I want to make?

yeah I agree.

[weed_killer]

I'm probably in the minority, but I use looping as a way of capturing ideas that I then turn around and use as the basis for tracks, i.e. I'm not using them for live improv so much. I have a ditto that I use for capturing 5 minutes of ideas - if it had a microsd or usb out to dump .wav files into a DAW it would be perfect, but as is it does what I want. I don't like being told I'm too ignorant to look outside the box though, which is the impression I got.

[tremolo3]

I'm probably in the minority, but I use looping as a way of capturing ideas that I then turn around and use as the basis for tracks, i.e. I'm not using them for live improv so much. I have a ditto that I use for capturing 5 minutes of ideas - if it had a microsd or usb out to dump .wav files into a DAW it would be perfect, but as is it does what I want. I don't like being told I'm too ignorant to look outside the box though, which is the impression I got.

Like the people who not play bloos wank with a strat and 3 TS9s or those with a sunn T and a red SG not playing teh d00mz. WTF is wrong with those people? They are doing it wrong.

[Invisible Man]

I think Torn is one of the more forward thinking people on TGP (not too difficult, I know, but still).

He is, and I still struggle to not flip out over all of the crusades he engages in. Cool guy, but its tough to hear about how you're "doing it wrong" all the time.

[Chankgeez]

Good point, he's certainly very opinionated, but he's also got enough real experience to back it up. His experience definitely isn't gonna be like anybody else's though. So, while "doing it wrong" may be strongly worded, if he's gonna spew forth, I'm at least gonna listen. May not agree with everything he says, but I'll give it some serious consideration.

[John]

Man if David Torn was such a goldang expert he'd get all those teaunze with just his fingers and maybe a $200 guitar pick made of dinosaur dickbone.

You don't need a looper; JUST PLAY THE RIFF AGAIN.

[Chankgeez]

You don't need a looper; JUST PLAY THE RIFF AGAIN.

... or train a monkey to.

(BTW, that's the name of our new band: DINOSAUR DICKBONE.)

[John]

You don't need a looper; JUST PLAY THE RIFF AGAIN.

... or train a monkey to.

(BTW, that's the name of our new band: DINOSAUR DICKBONE.)

I think I found our third member

[D.o.S.]

I'll show you a third member.

[rustywire]

Good point, he's certainly very opinionated, but he's also got enough real experience to back it up. His experience definitely isn't gonna be like anybody else's though. So, while "doing it wrong" may be strongly worded, if he's gonna spew forth, I'm at least gonna listen. May not agree with everything he says, but I'll give it some serious consideration.

Yeah his other rants have definitely been colorful...and informative without the indiscriminate condescension.
I know the guy has credibility w/r/t real world experience...and I wont try to diminish that. He knows a bunch of useful stuff...and has an understanding of some diverse gear.
But who wants to endure an older fella, stuck firmly in his ways, proclaiming that anyone not using looping as a cornerstone (or crutch) in live performance stems from a "lack of vision" or somehow the shortcoming of others. You cant make up that kinda hypocrisy.
He begins soapboxing about what is and then goes extreme with (myopic) ideas of how things should be which is some Dr. Cocteau shit. Never got that impression from him before...

[leaves turn]

It's tricky to make a truly powerful and innovative piece of gear that people will actually buy (e.g. the Vortex, Space Station, and Timebender all tanked hard). Conversely, things like the Ditto and JamMan Express are moving mountains.

I'd love to make the stuff David Torn wants...

[Chankgeez]

limited market.

[backwardsvoyager]

There's a good reason why the hardware looper of OP's dreams doesn't exist. Software can do it for much cheaper and easier. Honestly I don't think guitarists really need feature laden loopers to move forward and innovate their music. Guitar does a very good job at doing mostly simple things, if you want to do cool shit with looping and sampling, I don't really see why you'd want to do it with a guitar. That's the reason I sold my CT5, because I don't have any equipment I think would be ideal for it (vocal stuff, table top electronics, synths, DAWs etc). Obviously you can do cool shit with a CT5 and a guitar, but it wasn't what worked well with my personality for gear. I think MOST guitarists including myself are satisfied with the options available today. If you're not, you're in the minority, and you're probably gonna have to DIY or shell out a lot of money.

yeah I'm in the same boat here. if being 'innovative' is all someone is concerned with then maybe the nearly hundred year old electric guitar isn't really the best way for them to make music

It's tricky to make a truly powerful and innovative piece of gear that people will actually buy (e.g. the Vortex, Space Station, and Timebender all tanked hard). Conversely, things like the Ditto and JamMan Express are moving mountains.

I'd love to make the stuff David Torn wants...

yeah people really need to be more understanding of this from a manufacturers perspective.
although i wouldn't call the space station powerful, it was pretty innovative but i cant help but think the awfully limited control over each patch may have killed it. its hard to play it without sounding like you're using a factory preset cos everything is a factory preset.