very thoughtful TGP post by David Torn about looper pedals

[Gone Fission]

When DT is talking about the Revolver, Particle, and CT5 advancing the possibilities, that doesn't seem like a guy stuck in the 80s. The power to do more musical mangling with yer loops seems like it should be up our alley, GeoCities styling notwithstanding.

[Chankgeez]

I think Torn is one of the more forward thinking people on TGP (not too difficult, I know, but still).

[backwardsvoyager]

if he knows that software is so far ahead of hardware why isn't he just using software? expecting somebody to just make a big expensive full featured looper when they don't even know if the market for it exists is stupid.

i can't stand the logic of 'why isn't the exact thing i want available in a pedal or rack' when you CAN set up software solutions for WAY LESS MONEY. software is ridiculous these days and you can easily set up MIDI solutions to have tactile knobs and footswitches controlling programs.
all this is doing is reinforcing the stereotype that guitarists are morons that need everything set up in a limited format for them, and these people will probably sneer at 'computer musicians' when in reality those are the people actually putting the most effort into their music. we have the endless sea of information that is the internet now, if nobody will make what you think you need then make it yourself, fuck.

[Inconuucl]

I guess the point is being able to take it on the road. Since people hold on to the assumption that computers are tiny fragile things.

[Uncle Grandfather]

When DT is talking about the Revolver, Particle, and CT5 advancing the possibilities, that doesn't seem like a guy stuck in the 80s. The power to do more musical mangling with yer loops seems like it should be up our alley, GeoCities styling notwithstanding.

I got the impression he was slamming those pedals as weak examples of whats available today....but I wasn't paying too much attention as the pretty colors were distracting.

[rfurtkamp]

Dude has a point on most of those era of units. I've at least played for a time on over 3/4 of the ones listed, and if it's that or a Ditto, I'll take three of the old clunkers and pray it lives another five years.

There has to be somewhere between "this box does nothing but this ONE thing" and "this box requires a PhD" - I'm hoping something like a Source Audio something in the new line where it's got an editor but is in a pedal format and has some semblance of expandable presets.

[multi_s]

When DT is talking about the Revolver, Particle, and CT5 advancing the possibilities, that doesn't seem like a guy stuck in the 80s. The power to do more musical mangling with yer loops seems like it should be up our alley, GeoCities styling notwithstanding.

I got the impression he was slamming those pedals as weak examples of whats available today....but I wasn't paying too much attention as the pretty colors were distracting.

ya it's a bit difficult to understand the OP. I interpreted it as, most loopers are too simple, and older ones had more features, and these ones getting attention have less features than the old ones i'm talking about? or maybe these ones have some features but i want more?

anyway. Whatever he meant his points are not terrible and if anything will likely encourage more creative stuff, or at least not discourage it. I would actually say it's completely true that if you compare pedals to software loopers, you will be disapointed. If you compare Hexe to a lot of other boutique pedal makers on the other hand...

[goroth]

I think he is pumped about Revolver, Particle and Ct5 but is asking why this sort of functionality isn't in a dedicated looper from a mass producer (????). His live videos of the Revolver helped convince me to buy one

Whatever, terribly written post, even disregarding the geocities formatting that must have taken him quite some effort, that obscures any point he is actually trying to make.

[trace]

if he knows that software is so far ahead of hardware why isn't he just using software? expecting somebody to just make a big expensive full featured looper when they don't even know if the market for it exists is stupid.

Exactly. Any used $100 laptop running Circular Labs' Mobius and a behringer fcb1010 would do everything he wants and more. Way cheaper and more powerful than any hardware looper that has ever been made or could ever be made.

[Eivind August]

Nah, no looping, you gotta play it all at once straight into the amp for those sRv toanz.

[phantasmagorovich]

I too think he was commending the Ct5, Revolver etc for doing cool stuff and mentioned them because the interest in those shows that there is a market. So I think he wants MORE and from a big ass company, because that would be the best way to make something like that actually come true.

And he might be right. I would be more interested in a looper able to do weird shit than a Ditto x3 (or whatever). Apart from a decent fuzztone everything can be replicated by software. But I don't want it to be. I want my shiny boxes on the floor, because they are awesome and more fun to use than my laptop.

Also more colors in stompboxes

But yeah, somebody should exploit the whole granular looping stuff and maybe a sequencer-like functionality. It would be fun and once it comes out I bet all of would be drooling over it.

This color code is BFF666

[rfurtkamp]

Bastard stepchild of modern delay times/looping and a Lexicon Vortex would have me whipping out the credit card faster than a hooker at a coke convention.

[D.o.S.]

When DT is talking about the Revolver, Particle, and CT5 advancing the possibilities, that doesn't seem like a guy stuck in the 80s. The power to do more musical mangling with yer loops seems like it should be up our alley, GeoCities styling notwithstanding.

I got the impression he was slamming those pedals as weak examples of whats available today....but I wasn't paying too much attention as the pretty colors were distracting.

No, he was lamenting the fact that innovation was coming from small builders, and using those as "good" examples, even if it's a bit backhanded.

you have the resources & the access to build better, and to present (or, challenge) those capable musicians to make more music than they already do make, with what might still be fresh & new tools at their disposal..

see: hexe revolver, red panda particle, montréal assembly count to five, wmd geiger counter & etc etc etc:
all (& way more than i can list here) very interesting to increasing #'s of guitarists, it seems, all doing things we've been doing in software for years & years, but the musical explorations & results are satisfyingly different..... with a guitar-in-hand.

I think I agree with him, but I don't particularly care about a big company expanding everyone's horizons.

[jrmy]

There has to be somewhere between "this box does nothing but this ONE thing" and "this box requires a PhD".

This right here sums it all up for me.

Also, soft-click footswitches. Maybe it's just me, but I find that regular footswitches screw me all up when it comes to looping.

[Uncle Grandfather]

even if it's a bit backhanded.

yeah i see what you mean. i just picked up on the whole these are the coolest pedals today and they are still nothing compared to yesterday. I really don't care what he has to say and he sure took a convoluted path to make his point.