What can you tell me about Just Intonation?

[D.o.S.]

Anyone got any interest in it?

[Chankgeez]

[leaves turn]

I can tell you that The Well Tuned Piano is freakin' awesome

[morange]

I was interested in it a long time ago, but not so much now; guitar is so equal temper dependent. Like, just intonation is built on the ratios between the first few terms in the harmonic series. Our normal system is, too, but the ratios are slightly modified so that the 12 tone system works. Any key in our system draws from the same 12 notes. That's how I see our system, a compromise for simplicity. But in just intonation, each key has it's own set of notes, because the harmonics of one note don't match up exactly with the harmonics of another. You can also go higher up the harmonic series to get stranger sounding intervals, and build a musical scale with as many notes as you want. Look up Dante Rosati's just tempered guitar. Kind of a cool example of a guy who built a guitar with lots of just intervals.

But in a given key, the just intervals sound more right, as subtly different as they are from the equal tempered versions, and people singing or playing some instrument without rigid equal tuning by ear will naturally settle on those. It's interesting to compare equal tempered musical intervals to the intervals they approximate. Apparently certain chords just sound magical in just intonation.

You can get really into it, and you'll see I've been pretty vague and incoherent here. But that's the gist as I currently understand it.

It's all very fascinating and relevant, and I wish my understanding were more perfect, because the vibrations of a plucked guitar string contain natural harmonics of the fretted note, and there's a ton of complex stuff happening when you play equal tempered chords with all those not-equal-tempered harmonics flying around. Especially when you add fuzz into the mix. It's a thin leash on a wild noise.

[kaeth]

http://www.truetemperament.com/

Pricey necks, but I'd love to try one.

[morange]

The TRUE TEMPERAMENT™ Fretting System is a revolutionary new way to construct guitar fingerboards which tune accurately along the whole neck.

TRUE TEMPERAMENT™ does not imply Just Intonation. It is physically impossible to implement Just Intonation in more than one specific key (and its relative minor) on any instrument with only 12 intervals in the octave. (Except perhaps for computer-controlled instruments using electronically generated sounds.)

What we mean by TRUE TEMPERAMENT™ is that our fretting system will give you super-accurate intonation over the whole fingerboard in the temperament it is constructed for.

So, it's super-accurate. Whatever that means. bullshit

[D.o.S.]

I was interested in it a long time ago, but not so much now; guitar is so equal temper dependent. Like, just intonation is built on the ratios between the first few terms in the harmonic series. Our normal system is, too, but the ratios are slightly modified so that the 12 tone system works. Any key in our system draws from the same 12 notes. That's how I see our system, a compromise for simplicity. But in just intonation, each key has it's own set of notes, because the harmonics of one note don't match up exactly with the harmonics of another. You can also go higher up the harmonic series to get stranger sounding intervals, and build a musical scale with as many notes as you want. Look up Dante Rosati's just tempered guitar. Kind of a cool example of a guy who built a guitar with lots of just intervals.

But in a given key, the just intervals sound more right, as subtly different as they are from the equal tempered versions, and people singing or playing some instrument without rigid equal tuning by ear will naturally settle on those. It's interesting to compare equal tempered musical intervals to the intervals they approximate. Apparently certain chords just sound magical in just intonation.

You can get really into it, and you'll see I've been pretty vague and incoherent here. But that's the gist as I currently understand it.

It's all very fascinating and relevant, and I wish my understanding were more perfect, because the vibrations of a plucked guitar string contain natural harmonics of the fretted note, and there's a ton of complex stuff happening when you play equal tempered chords with all those not-equal-tempered harmonics flying around. Especially when you add fuzz into the mix. It's a thin leash on a wild noise.

This is essentially where I am right now. It's also interesting to examine how slight the differences between ET and JI are (we're talking mostly small difference of cents per interval), despite there being such an audible effect -- LaMonte Young has always struck me as better in the abstract than in practice, but there are pieces of music I quite enjoy using instruments tuned to JI, and since I have little interest in key changes or transposition most of the time in my own work.

And, also, because I own a fretless bass that I have in recent years neglected because the fret dots at the top of the fingerboard are "wrong," which makes it more or less perfect for toying with this sort of thing.

[Chankgeez]

La Monte Young's pretty awesome.

So are fretless instruments.

So's Pandit Pran Nath.

You should listen to this between 9 at night and midnight:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esuia43tJUI[/youtube]

[voerking]

Arnold Dreyblatt has done some cool stuff with just intonation instruments
http://youtu.be/_BGneDx0q44

[voerking]

also, the guy in Horse Lords (great band!) did a DIY microtonal fretboard. i'm not exactly what the methodology was, though.

cool live video:
http://youtu.be/p58eEgyQ3rE

[Chankgeez]

I believe this drone piece is in just intonation:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h66VEjzSHD8[/youtube]

[D.o.S.]

Another really good drone-y example is Duane Pitre's Feel free:
https://soundcloud.com/duanepitre/feel- ... um-preview

And Ben Johnston's Amazing Grace is entirely in just intonation -- I think it's three different tunings, but I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4MkJXXMBAw[/youtube]

[Chankgeez]

We'd be amiss if some of this weren't included in the thread:

(TURN DOWN YOUR VOLUME [or turn it up?])

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e8QKh3LOQY[/youtube]

[Chankgeez]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iezxej1S52E[/youtube]

[D.o.S.]

And lo, like the Krautrock thread and the dub thread before it, the Just Intonation became third in the holy trinity of threads where D.o.S. and Chank post youtube videos back and forth periodically.

Found this the other day -- just over a month old. Very cool.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTlqIL-9xaU[/youtube]