Silicon Fuzz Face Build Questions (2nd Attempt)

[Dogbrainz]

I am building my second attempt at a Silicon Fuzz Face based on the Aron Nelson layout shown below.
I have a few questions that might help prevent a second failure.

Apologies for my cluelessness.
Thanks in advance to anybody who can help me out with advice. Any assistance would be much appreciated.


Q1: Can anybody verify that this Vero layout has been used successfully?

Q2: Could my first failure have been due to using the 2n2222 transistors as both Q1 and Q2?
(I have since read that they are high gain and should only be used for Q2. I now have some BC108(A) and BC109(A) transistors for my second build)

Q3: My first Fuzz Face failure used all Carbon 1 watt 5% resistors. Is this appropriate or should I try using 0.5 watt metal film resistors?

Q4: The Polarised Capacitors I used for my first Fuzz Face failure were 63v rather than 16v.
Are these okay to use or is 63v too high?

Q5: The C2 Capacitor I used for my failed Fuzz Face was a greencap 1uf (100nf)
Are Greencap 100nf(.1uf) appropriate?

Thanks again to anybody who might be able to help out!

[Nocentelli]

I haven't personally built that particular layout, but all the connections on it are correct for a fuzzface circuit, and it will work if correctly put together.

None of the part substitutions you have listed would stop the circuit working: A fuzzface will sound a bit different with different trannies, but 2N2222 should work ok in Q1+Q2. An error in cutting the tracks, solder blobs shorting between tracks, mis-wired controls or power supply, or a misplaced component are much more likely causes of failure #1.

Are you certain of how to construct a vero layout of this type? If not, go to tagboardfx for the guide to using vero layouts. If you are confident about how to do it, just try again. Maybe socket the transistors this time, so if you get another duffer, you can pull those and have only wasted a handful of cheap components.

[Dogbrainz]

I haven't personally built that particular layout, but all the connections on it are correct for a fuzzface circuit, and it will work if correctly put together.

None of the part substitutions you have listed would stop the circuit working: A fuzzface will sound a bit different with different trannies, but 2N2222 should work ok in Q1+Q2. An error in cutting the tracks, solder blobs shorting between tracks, mis-wired controls or power supply, or a misplaced component are much more likely causes of failure #1.

Are you certain of how to construct a vero layout of this type? If not, go to tagboardfx for the guide to using vero layouts. If you are confident about how to do it, just try again. Maybe socket the transistors this time, so if you get another duffer, you can pull those and have only wasted a handful of cheap components.

Thanks for your help.

I think you're probably right that misunderstanding the vero layouts wiring is a likely cause for my failed build.
Will definately check out the tagboardfx guide to sort it out.

I think the soldering and component placement was okay so there's a good chance the tagboardfx guide will lead me in the right direction.
Cheers!

I re-breadboarded it using a stereo input because I used 2 mono jacks the first time the first time I breadboarded it.
Probably a fair sign that I'm still a bit clueless.
I did use a stereo input on the build but think I may have wired it wrong due to not understanding the layout properly.
I had wired the 2 adjoining green wires in the diagram with both soldered to the same sleeve lug of the stereo input. That might be my problem.

Thanks again


Thanks again.
Much appreciated

Thanx again.

[Ben79]

The green wires go to ground. If they're soldered to the same lug on the stereo input jack, that sounds correct to me as long as the battery "-" is soldered to the other lug and the tip lug is soldered to the middle left terminal on the footswitch. Post photos if you can of both sides of the board and the wiring, it should be pretty easy then to see what's wrong.

[Jero]

Q1: Can anybody verify that this Vero layout has been used successfully?
Q2: Could my first failure have been due to using the 2n2222 transistors as both Q1 and Q2?
(I have since read that they are high gain and should only be used for Q2. I now have some BC108(A) and BC109(A) transistors for my second build)
Q3: My first Fuzz Face failure used all Carbon 1 watt 5% resistors. Is this appropriate or should I try using 0.5 watt metal film resistors?
Q4: The Polarised Capacitors I used for my first Fuzz Face failure were 63v rather than 16v.
Are these okay to use or is 63v too high?
Q5: The C2 Capacitor I used for my failed Fuzz Face was a greencap 1uf (100nf)
Are Greencap 100nf(.1uf) appropriate?

1. I haven't used it, but it's a pretty old one, and they typically say "unverified" if not.

2. Maybe, but only if you don't have them oriented right. It mentions in the build info that 2n2222 are fine. Google the datasheets for the transistors you're using compared to the ones they suggest, and make sure you have the pinout (EBC) right. This is one of the most common problems I see people have.

3. Doesn't matter, unless their tolerances completely wondered off.

4. 63v ones won't change anything, in an audible sense, and are fine to use. They are usually just bigger/more expensive. Electros in stompboxes generally don't need to be over 12-32v (depending on operating voltage of the circuit) and that's playing it super safe.

5. Well, it's supposed to be a .01uf/10nf, but that wouldn't cause it to not work.

Having the two grounds going to the same sleeve is fine. I'm curious how you have the power set up. Please post pictures, if you can, as someone else mentioned.

[Dogbrainz]

Firstly, many thanx for everyones help. I'd be totally lost without forums like this.

So anyways:

I've since butchered and re-attempted the wiring for another fail. Yay!
I'd show photo's but it's probably a different problem now. I'll try uploading a photo of the vero a bit later though. (I'll add it to this post)

I did get clean bypassed signal on my last attempt, and had some brief farty fuzz cutting in occasionally so I guess I was a bit closer somehow.
I'm pretty sure I got the transistor pinouts right as I checked their data sheets thoroughly and I also seem to have got the polarised capacitors the right way around.

I've since re-prototyped it again with BC108's and the correct 0.1/10nf cap as mentioned by Jero (many thanks) but as Jero mentioned, I don't think that was what actually stopped it working.
I'm going to start over by doing a new vero board with my new BC108's and some better caps I bought. I'll check it against an identical schematic as I go.

I think my main confusion from the diagram is this:

Black Wiring = Ring of Input to negative battery terminal
Magenta Wiring (Pink and Purple) = Jack tips and vero board (+)signal path
Green Wiring = Ground/Sleeve of Jacks

BUT HOW DOES THE 3 GREEN LINES THAT JOIN UP WORK?
I figured I had to join 2 of the 3 to the Stereo Jacks ground/sleeve terminal but I'm hoping the diagram below might help with my next attempt

Anyways, I'll post some vero board pics soon

Thanks again to everybody for their advice

[Jero]

Yea, maybe the second one would be easier to follow for you. You don't really have to ground the jacks to each other, as they will make that connection through the enclosure...which means you also don't actually have to wire a ground to the output at all. If you're doing all this on a breadboard type situation first however, you WILL need those all to be grounded together.

Another thing it could be is the trace cuts.
The first time I did vero, I made all my trace cuts on the copper, just like in the picture (the one you posted for example), but then when I flipped the board over to populate it, the cuts were in the wrong spots, cause I didn't equate for the orientation...aka all the cuts on the left, ended up on the right and vice versa. Does that make sense at all?

[Dogbrainz]

Yea, maybe the second one would be easier to follow for you. You don't really have to ground the jacks to each other, as they will make that connection through the enclosure...which means you also don't actually have to wire a ground to the output at all. If you're doing all this on a breadboard type situation first however, you WILL need those all to be grounded together.

Another thing it could be is the trace cuts.
The first time I did vero, I made all my trace cuts on the copper, just like in the picture (the one you posted for example), but then when I flipped the board over to populate it, the cuts were in the wrong spots, cause I didn't equate for the orientation...aka all the cuts on the left, ended up on the right and vice versa. Does that make sense at all?

Thanks again for the tips Jero. I'll leave out grounding the jacks for my current attempt. Just put the one green ground wire to input I guess.
Thanks again
I just made the same mistake of doing the trace cuts on the copper side for my new Fuzz Face attempt but realised before soldering parts in.

I think I also finally realised my main mistake for the original build.
I had a wrong resistor on my layout for R1 (must've stuffed it up first time I put my soldering iron to it). What a great start to DIY that was.

Can't figure out what value the resistor was. It was a Carbon Gold/Yellow/Orange/Orange resistor, I'm pretty sure that was my main problem.
From what I'm hearing he over wiring and slightly wrong capacitor value probably didn't prevent it from working so I'd say it was the resistor.
I've learnt heaps from everybody helping me out though. It's given me a much better understanding of layouts.

I guess you do learn from your mistakes.

Judging be the amount of errors I've made with my Fuzz Face and the 2 BYOC's I've built, I should be getting a decent education so far.
On the plus side, I did eventually get the BYOC's working, the Fuzz Face is my first fully qualified failure.
But hopefully I'll get the next one up and running yet (knock on wood).

Thanks again to everybody who has helped me out.

[Jero]

I think I also finally realised my main mistake for the original build.
I had a wrong resistor on my layout for R1 (must've stuffed it up first time I put my soldering iron to it). What a great start to DIY that was.
Can't figure out what value the resistor was. It was a Carbon Gold/Yellow/Orange/Orange resistor, I'm pretty sure that was my main problem.

That resistor was a 43k, I think, which it looks like it should have been a 330r. That's a big difference, and could certainly cause issue. It being that high could cut all volume.

[Dogbrainz]

I think I also finally realised my main mistake for the original build.
I had a wrong resistor on my layout for R1 (must've stuffed it up first time I put my soldering iron to it). What a great start to DIY that was.
Can't figure out what value the resistor was. It was a Carbon Gold/Yellow/Orange/Orange resistor, I'm pretty sure that was my main problem.

That resistor was a 43k, I think, which it looks like it should have been a 330r. That's a big difference, and could certainly cause issue. It being that high could cut all volume.

I reckon you're spot on.
I figured it might've been a high value because once I re-wired it I noticed that if I strummed REALLY hard I'd get a very brief Fuzz come through then die out.
I'm guessing that's what might happen if a resistor value is way to high but not quite high enough to kill all signal coming through it.

Thanx again for your help. With what I've learnt from your posts (and others) I'm fairly confident that my current Fuzz Face attempt will work out.

[Ben79]

Am I wrong or wouldn't an orange orange yellow gold be a 330k with a 5% tolerance?

[Jero]

Am I wrong or wouldn't an orange orange yellow gold be a 330k with a 5% tolerance?

You may be right, I said that value from my head, not looking it up, very well could have made a mistake. At 330k, that would cause even more issue, considering it's placement in the circuit. No?

[Ben79]

Yeah, it's a thousand times too much resistance. 330R would be orange orange brown.

[Dogbrainz]

Finally got my Fuzz Face up and running.

A big thanx to Ben79, Nocentelli and Jero for all your help, I doubt I would've got it working without everybodys assistance.
The pedal sounds great, (a bit of wierd interference noise at full fuzz) but I'm calling it a success.

Thanks again.
May the tone gods be smiling on all of your future builds.

[Ben79]

No sweat. Someone here will be able to help you with the interference problem, but it's not something I've come across before so I don't know - maybe shielded input and output cables?