Tube question / guitar tone (the amp is part of the problem)

[Tristan]

If you really want to go all tube/tone quest, what about getting that Univalve that is in B/S/T and swapping out tubes to get a sense of what you are after? You can hot swap the Power tube and the two pre-amp tubes. The "roll" channel cuts one of the pre-amp tubes out. What's nice, is that it let's you really hear the difference between say a 6550, an El34 and a 6L6. Pre-Amp tubes really change based on manufacturer…this is a slippery slope, but if you can find an old stereo place or a music shop with a bin of used tubes, you can totally score a range of tubes to try out for almost no money. I have a small shoe box full of vintage tubes that probably didn't cost me more than $30…the pre-amp tubes are a different story…a NOS high gain pre-amp tube is worth it's weight in gold, and typically won't burn out.

It seems like a nice option and I don't want to devalue what you say but from trying the Univalve my opinion is that you would hear the difference between the tubes but only in that particular circuit, which is / sounds a bit quirky, unlike any other (vintage style) amp.
Honestly, power tubes don't solely contribute to a certain sound, it's only in conjunction with the preamp and power amp circuit that they give a certain tone.
I've heard 6V6's sound like EL84's (Bogner Duende), EL34's sound like EL84's (Matchless Phoenix), 6V6's sound like EL34's (Marshall Studio 15), EL84's sound like EL34's (Marshall 2061), EL84's sound like 6V6's (Peavey Classic 30) and those are just some examples, there are more.

[Tristan]

Syl- When I built up the Telecaster I use now I absolutely hated the bridge pickup as well. You might want to look into some sort of telecaster sized humbucker for the bridge. I put a Dimarzio rail pickup into my Telecaster last week and it was a night and day difference. More output, no ice-pick highs, more full/well rounded sound, and plenty of low end to go around too!

The Lollar Special T should sound fat.

Yeah, understandable for the amount that they cost and the higher output that they have, they SHOULD sound fat. But they're still designed like a Tele bridge pickup It's really the downfall of that style of pickup. It doesn't seem like unless you change the style, whether it be to a Tele bridge P90, or a Telecaster humbucker, or just a different style of winding in general other than overwinding a traditional Tele pickup that the quirks and ice-picky sounds dissipate.

I too tried a Telecaster pickup wound in a traditional style like the Lollar that was wound to about 8k or a little hotter than yours and I found the same problem! So you aren't alone man

I think it's also the guitar itself, not per se the fact that it is a Telecaster, those Fender CS Relic NoCasters with NoCaster pickups sound huge and punchy, there's no comparison between that and a normal Tele, any normal Tele really.
But sure, it has to be a sound you're looking for offcourse, if you don't like the Tele the NoCaster might not be for you either.
Those Koll guitars seem amazing, I'd definitely check them out, if I'm not mistaken they're also in Canada so why not just drive by sometime I'd say.

[sylnau]

Yeah dude. The wiring looks fine. What are the potentiometer values? You kind of have a good thing going with individual volume and tone knobs for each pickup, because you can swap out the bridge pickup's volume/tone knobs for lower values without affecting the neck pickup. If they are 1M pots for the bridge, try to go down to 500k. If they are 500k, try going down to 250k!

Pot are 250k.

[skullservant]

Hmmmm. Maybe 100k would be worth a try before doing something dramatic!

[sylnau]

Koll are not in Canada.
They had a reseller Boutique Tone in Montreal, but they don't exist anymore.

And the Duo Glide is a 3k guitars. I would prefer under 2k.

[Tristan]

Ah, sorry, my mistake, I thought they were from Canada.
Under 2k isn't easy for a really great guitar but it should be possible.
What kind of sounds do you prefer?

[sylnau]

What kind of sound... that's the problem.
I like versatile guitars.

That's what I like about my old PRS CE22... but I hate the way the PRS look.

I generally like:
-Maogany body (maple top is cool)
-Maple neck
-25.5 or 25.6 scale
-Fat neck.

[Tristan]

Versatile, I understand, the PRS probably looked too modern for you, right?
Good Mahogany is quite a moderate wood in terms of sound, it has a bit of everything, open highs but not too much, good bass but not boomy and warm midrange.
Other woods you could consider from the top of my head are Korina or Alder maybe.
Do you generally prefer a bolt-on or a set-in neck?

With the specs you stated it's not that strange you went for a Tele, I think Skully's suggestion of trying a Tele sized humbucker in the bridge is quite a good one.
You could score one on Ebay for not too much and try it out, it would also give you some more insight into whether a Tele styled guitar with humbuckers would do the trick for you.

If I search for luthier Canada, this is one of the first things I get, maybe there's something interesting for you in there:
http://thehandmadeguitar.com/a-list-of- ... rom-canada

[sylnau]

The switch is fixed.
I just learn how to use a desoldering pump and a solder iron.

This look like something I could like:

https://axeandyoushallreceive.com/produ ... onyx-black

But I don't like the bridge.
And it's way too expensive.

[Hyphen Nation]

If you really want to go all tube/tone quest, what about getting that Univalve that is in B/S/T and swapping out tubes to get a sense of what you are after? You can hot swap the Power tube and the two pre-amp tubes. The "roll" channel cuts one of the pre-amp tubes out. What's nice, is that it let's you really hear the difference between say a 6550, an El34 and a 6L6. Pre-Amp tubes really change based on manufacturer…this is a slippery slope, but if you can find an old stereo place or a music shop with a bin of used tubes, you can totally score a range of tubes to try out for almost no money. I have a small shoe box full of vintage tubes that probably didn't cost me more than $30…the pre-amp tubes are a different story…a NOS high gain pre-amp tube is worth it's weight in gold, and typically won't burn out.

It seems like a nice option and I don't want to devalue what you say but from trying the Univalve my opinion is that you would hear the difference between the tubes but only in that particular circuit, which is / sounds a bit quirky, unlike any other (vintage style) amp.
Honestly, power tubes don't solely contribute to a certain sound, it's only in conjunction with the preamp and power amp circuit that they give a certain tone.
I've heard 6V6's sound like EL84's (Bogner Duende), EL34's sound like EL84's (Matchless Phoenix), 6V6's sound like EL34's (Marshall Studio 15), EL84's sound like EL34's (Marshall 2061), EL84's sound like 6V6's (Peavey Classic 30) and those are just some examples, there are more.

I wouldn't disagree much with that. While the circuit is always present [I think it's voiced pretty bright] if you can account for that, it might give you a decent place to start from… Hearing the way an EL34 breaks up vs a 6550 [my favorite tube of all time] and hearing how preamps effect that is pretty nice to be able to do in almost real time. I bought my Univalve intending to just use it for a while to learn tube toans while I sorted out an amp build, but have ended up keeping it since I can play at low volume at night and I still enjoy swapping tubes [though not nearly as often].

What are you trying to get after tone wise? Sorry I am new-ish here, and don't know your guitar. Looking at the pot's picture I assume it's a deluxe? You may just not like the guitar. Tele's are chimey and bright, even when comparing a tele deluxe to a Les Paul, it will never sound like an LP. Re-reading through the posts, it looks like you are looking for a fuller/richer sound. Have you thought of those Lollar p-90's that come in a humbucker size? Tried a strat with them and fucking fell in love instantly. Sounds like you've got some nice pickups in there already. Maybe just sell it/trade it if you aren't feeling it? Nothing sucks like a guitar you don't connect with. It should be inspiring you to play more and more.

[univalve]

Neil Youngish experimental post rock i would say.

[Tristan]

Syl's style / sound you mean?
If you say Neil Young I think about P90's but they can be quite noisy, especially with fuzz.
Maybe Filtertrons but they can be a bit on the bright side I think.
It's not that easy to find something unique and versatile that works well with fuzz.
Not to derail the topic but I'm having a Lollar Charlie Christian and a TV Jones Classic Plus installed in my Gibson ES335, I'm curious to hear what that's going to do.

[sylnau]

Neil Youngish experimental post rock i would say.

I only like "Le Noise"
I would say more Tom Waits "Real Gone"

[Chankgeez]

Not to derail the topic but I'm having a Lollar Charlie Christian and a TV Jones Classic Plus installed in my Gibson ES335...

What?

What were we talking about?

Charlie Christian?

[Tristan]

Well, I meant, since Syl is looking for something versatile but I think also something special, that's why I mentioned it.
I found myself in a similar position possibly, a humbucker is a bit too boring / bland to me but I'd like something a bit thicker than a Strat or Tele single coil, kind of a sound in between of a humbucker and a single coil maybe?
It's a bit of a long shot I guess but at least I could report back and say what I think they do with fuzz.

More on topic:
Syl, how about a Jazzmaster, did you ever try one of those?
Or maybe a Warmoth type of deal of some kind?