(Cheap) MIDI Loopstation ?

[Dramatis Persona]

Hello there,
I'm looking for a loopstation with MIDI in and out, I need to receive clock from a drum machine (or a virtual looper) and send clock to my drum machine and my midi looper.
Every loopstation with MIDI is very expensive or huge as hell, I don't care about sound quality, slowly I'm becoming deaf, and in a live gig who can tell the difference between 16 or 24 bit? etc.
Does exist something smaller than a Boss dual pedal or EHX XO peal and that doesn't cost like a kidney?

PS:

Is my English improved during this year?

[univalve]

Lexicon jamman is my choice for this. Rackunit though...

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

ehx 2880, electrix repeater. i think you're gunna find that midi and loop station don't go together as often as they should.

does boomerang do midi?

[univalve]

V3 should, at least hazelwould posted once about it.

[Dramatis Persona]

I can't find a Lexicon Jamman for cheap where I live.
The Boomerang III seems to be the perfect solution, but it is very pricey, in EU it costs 525 dirty euros. and the Side Car 265 euros!!! For this price I can rent a chinese guitar player who plays the loop for me.
Another cool alternative could be the Pigrtronix Infinity Looper, but it only has MIDI in, in this way I can't send clock to my Drum Machine. :/

I think it's better if I use sampled guitar loops for this moment.

PS:

Strymon Timeline? I don't use long loops, 30 secs are enough for me!

[univalve]

Nah, won't work. No midi sync to clock.

BTW, you should get a midi splitter for sure (kenton midi thru e.g.).

[Glenouille]

Univalve is right. 

It's difficult enough to find pedals with MIDI input, if you also look for MIDI out or Thru, the list will be really short.
The best way to do this is to replicate the initial clock signal by using a small Midi thru device. Kenton thru-5, pedalSync Midi Splitty, Midi Solutions Thru or Quadra Thru, etc.

You can then plug all your devices with MIDI inputs into the MIDI thru box, in your set up you would have: 
Master Clock (drum machine 1/virtual looper)>MIDI thru box
MIDI thru box (output 1)>looper
MIDI thru box (output 2)>drum machine 2

Now, this addresses the lack of MIDI out/MIDI thru but we still have to identify a small footprint looper that can be sync'ed via MIDI. I do not know of any... And as I did not have many decent chinese guitar players in my contacts (should network more in 2014), I went for the Rang III and the Side Car.
As much as it works nicely with MIDI, both pedals together take an entire Pedaltrain mini... Does not really qualify as small footprint!

Digitech and Boss both make small loopers with some form of sync.

Digitech JamSync is proprietary, it uses Start/Stop and Clock signal (very MIDIesque, if you ask me) but they apparently put their own spin on it so that it (again apparently) only works with other Digitech pedals. Maybe they'll stop being daft in the future and will adopt a more MIDI friendly approach enabling more pedals to join the sync.

PedalSync (Molten Voltage) have released a device that converts MIDI Clock signal into tap tempo signal. It's called CTRL-Sync. It works well; I use it to sync my PH-3 to the rest of my pedals.
Like the PH-3, The RC-2 has also a tap tempo input, in theory we could use the CTRL-Sync to sync the RC-2.

MIDI thru box (output 1)>CTRL-Sync>RC-2

Sounds simple enough; however the RC-2 is ready to receive tap tempo info via the dedicated input when it is not used for looping, when the RC-2 plays a loop, it expects Start and Stop info from the input. So this could mean that we need to stop sending a signal in the input when the RC-2 is looping stuff. I'm not entirely sure...

Mods have been done on the pedal itself to have Start/Stop on an extra footswitch and tap tempo on another (http://tonequestdemos.tumblr.com/).
Separating functions in this manner could the solution: Modding the RC-2 to have the tap tempo input solely dedicated to tap tempo, separated from the Start/Stop function (which could be on its own dedicated footswitch as per the mod). The RC-2 would capture the Master Tempo whilst it's engaged and is not playing loops, the tap tempo info would not conflict with the Start/Stop info when it plays loop.

Now if the Master tempo is changed on the drum machine whilst the RC-2 is playing loops, the change will not be taken into account by the RC-2 until it is stopped but you cannot have everything.

Synching devices nearly always means spending money, wether it is to purchase devices that have have purposely been designed with sync in mind or buying multiple converters and spending time modding devices that cannot initially be synched as they currently are.

On another note the Timeline can be synched via MIDI, there were issues with this functionality but Firmware Rev. 1.42 released earlier this year should have normally solved them.

[univalve]

I was refering to the timeline looper and its midi sync. The Delay time Sync Works great though.

[Glenouille]

Damn! Forgot the looper can be controlled via MIDI but cannot do MIDI sync!
Odd Choice... I think the previous incarnation of the Timeline (Damage Control) had a looper mode that could sync to a MIDI clock if I recall correctly.
Anyway you're right again it's no good.

[Dramatis Persona]

Thank you for your explanation!
Do you know if Boomerang III could send his Midi Clock to other devices? It is possible to record loops with different leght in sync (x1 x2 x4etc)?

[Glenouille]

I’m not sure we understand each other.
The Rang III does not have a MIDI clock and cannot generate a clock signal.
The MIDI clock must be another device that can generate a clock signal: we call it the master.
The Rang III can receive this signal via its MIDI input and sync* to it: we call it a slave.
The Rang III has 2 MIDI port at the back (IN and OUT), from what I recall you can use the OUT to pass the clock signal to another device. Though do not quote me on this as I have not tried recently since I use MIDI thru boxes (Kenton).

*One thing I wanted to clarify: the Rang III does not really sync to MIDI, Boomerang call it MIDI quantize.

When an external MIDI clock is present, the loops will be quantized to the nearest quarter note, i.e. recording will start and end on the MIDI quarter note closest to your loop button tap. When playing a stopped loop, it will start on the nearest quarter note following a loop button tap.

In other words, it’s not bad, but it’s nowhere near as solid as what a Lexicon Jamman can do.

Note: It also handles MIDI Start & Stop commands which is quite cool:

When the clock source issues a Stop command, the III responds by issuing an internal Play-Stop All command and all playing loops stop. When the clock source issues a Start command, the III responds by playing all loops that were playing when the last Stop command was received.

As for your question about the length of the loops:

That’s all there is to it. These instructions are short because our MIDI sync design is simple and straightforward but allows for some very interesting performance options. Enjoy.

Yeah, that’s it (or the lack of…). So with all of the above in mind, you can record whatever length you want, the Rang will endeavour to “help you” end the recording on a beat every time based on the tempo it receives. Not as solid as I would like it to be but pretty nice.

[Dramatis Persona]

Ok, now I understand what you said!
I'm looking for different features. :/
Actually with my (virtual) synths I'm using Loopy HD, it is an iPad (virtual) looper, it's really cool.
For example I record a loop with a synt (without tempo), when I close the loop, loopy sends the MIDI clock to my drum-machine and my bass-sequencer and they start to play immediatly, if I press pause they stop to play. In this way I can start a song without any drum or bass, but only with a synth melody and add them automatically when the loop starts. (like every Boards of Canada song).
I'd like to do the same with my guitar, record a chord progression, and when the loop is recorded, let the drum machine start automatically. :/

[Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.]

i've used loopy before, doesn't it have like many loop slots? could you incorporate your guitar into it somehow? that might be your best/easiest/cheapest solution.

ehx 2880/455000 sends/receives midi clock.

[Dramatis Persona]

i've used loopy before, doesn't it have like many loop slots? could you incorporate your guitar into it somehow? that might be your best/easiest/cheapest solution.

ehx 2880/455000 sends/receives midi clock.

It's exactly what I'm actually doing. Loopy has 12 tracks, but I can't split the input\output in two different channels, I need to send my guitar to my amp and my ipad (synths, samples, bass, drum machine etc) to the mixer.


I don't know if 2880/45000 can make DM1 or other drum machine or sequencer app start. :/

[univalve]

I'd like to do the same with my guitar, record a chord progression, and when the loop is recorded, let the drum machine start automatically. :/

i do this with my lexicon jamman and the korg volca beat (synced as slave). Not that super tight as it was with a Boss Dr. Rhythm but i use it just for home jamming.