Rackmount Amp Setups: Who Uses 'em?

[01010111]

Do you use one? If so, what do you use and why?

I'm beginning to think I should build one because my needs for an amp are so weird. I need something that has an extremely wide frequency response, can accept and manipulate multiple inputs, and can be louder than god. It hit me earlier today that I could build a rackmount setup with a mixer, preamps, and a power amp and it should be able to do what I need; in theory. Is this a good route to go or is there something better I should consider?

[sonidero]

What exactly are you trying to do???

[Mudfuzz]

I use a rack because the mesa 400 needs to be in one unless you can ever find a damned head case for one..

On the other hand, my guitarist uses a full rack setup which has her guitar [Marshall JMP-1, Digitech GSP 2101, Seymour Duncan tube power amp] and her keyboard rig [kurzweil, something I don't remember, and a toa mixer], I think the main reason is she has been a keyboardist longer and likes pre-sets... or it mixed with her board lets her have 3 or 4 delays to mess with all the time

[01010111]

I use a rack because the mesa 400 needs to be in one unless you can ever find a damned head case for one..

On the other hand, my guitarist uses a full rack setup which has her guitar [Marshall JMP-1, Digitech GSP 2101, Seymour Duncan tube power amp] and her keyboard rig [kurzweil, something I don't remember, and a toa mixer], I think the main reason is she has been a keyboardist longer and likes pre-sets... or it mixed with her board lets her have 3 or 4 delays to mess with all the time

It sounds like I'm pretty much trying to do the same thing your guitarist's doing I'm running my vocals, keyboard and guitar into a mixer and into the power amp on my twin for now. It's pretty good, but I'm thinking that it would work a lot better if I actually used gear that was designed to do this sort of thing; also, I think I could get away with hauling less gear this way, as opposed to running a separate keyboard amp/rig and guitar amp/rig.

I was originally just going to get a meatsmoke and sum the signals, minus the vocals, using a mixer before plugging into the preamp, but that probably wouldn't give me the best results. I think this way I could get a lot better tonal separation between the guitar and the synth running a rack-mount rig. And I hadn't really considered it, but I could also start into the dark and mysterious world of rack-mount effects....

edit: I also have weird hearing that's both supersonic and subsonic to the average hearing range. It seems like a setup like this would let me play with the frequencies I've been blocked from because of frequency restrictive guitar and bass amps.

[sonidero]

Peavey and Roland and others make Keyboard Amps that would work for this... They have multiple inputs and controls for each channel... You can also check for P.A. Amps... Craigslist is full of candidates...

[Mudfuzz]

play with the frequencies I've been blocked from because of frequency restrictive guitar and bass amps.

Depends on the bass amp. Guitar amps... yeah you are right.

So you need to think about pre-amps and mixers and power amps. You don't NEED a pre if you have a good mixer but they don't add "tone" most of the time. Also most of the cool rack shit isn't even made anymore... thank grunge

[01010111]

But using a pa feels like cheating

j/k I'll check it out. I think that's the only option I haven't really looked at. It seems like I'd still need to get some sort of preamp for the instruments to sound good, at least something for the guitar? Whenever I run guitars/basses into recording machines/mixers it always seems like the instruments are a little lackluster.

confession: having no money for an amp gives me way too much time to contemplate and plan out what I'll get when I finally have money

play with the frequencies I've been blocked from because of frequency restrictive guitar and bass amps.

Depends on the bass amp. Guitar amps... yeah you are right.

So you need to think about pre-amps and mixers and power amps. You don't NEED a pre if you have a good mixer but they don't add "tone" most of the time. Also most of the cool rack shit isn't even made anymore... thank grunge

Stupid grunge

Guitar amps are the worst for this, but I haven't found any amp that really goes into the supersonic dog whistle ranges; with the exception of the svt. I think the frequency response on those goes to 30khz? The frequency response thing isn't an issue so much for the guitar (I mean there's not going to be a whole lot of action above 16khz-17khz), it's mostly for the synth.

I'll definitely research pre-amps. I really want the Meatsmoke for my guitar (I can't get over how good the demos sound ). It's not rackmount, but I could always make room on my pedalboard.

Should I try looking for vintage rackmount stuff on ebay? How would I find information on this, Musiciansfriend and Sweetwater.com have not been helpful in my search for information on how to even make this kind of system work. I find it odd that it's this hard to find info on setting up a system like this and there are all kinds of helpful guides for making a modular synth setup

[dubkitty]

Should I try looking for vintage rackmount stuff on ebay?

yes.

How would I find information on this, Musiciansfriend and Sweetwater.com have not been helpful in my search for information on how to even make this kind of system work. I find it odd that it's this hard to find info on setting up a system like this and there are all kinds of helpful guides for making a modular synth setup

all my knowledge of rack mount effects came from the internet. for the kind of thing you're doing the best place to start is probably with keyboard setups, because more keys players use mixers and power amps in racks than do guitarists. a lot of it is simple effects logic, but applied to long flat rectangular shit screwed to rack rails. my only advice is to figure out the order of things before you screw them into the rack, or else use a patch bay...it's a huge PITA to take stuff out of the rack to change its position.

[sonidero]

You are wanting to be a one man mobile amplified unit??? Why not just use a guitar amp for guitar and a keyboard amp for keyboards and vocals... I think you may be over thinking the whole thing... Check out those Bose amps that are designed for what you are talking about... Rack Mixers, Pre Amps and Power Amps with the Road Cases would run over $5000 to get going...

[dubkitty]

you could do it for a lot less than that. a used Crown power amp loud enough to kill snakes in the yard was about $200-250 in the Bay Area a year or two ago in the buy/sells.

[AxAxSxS]

If you are looking for subsonic freq's look up sensurround earthquake cabs. they were a theater bit of gear designed to make people FEEL the earthquake or naval gunfire or whatever. Whiskeyface would be the resident expert on this stuff. Very cool and extreme approach.

[rfurtkamp]

Preamp is easy. Just find what makes your flavor of noise, or look at modelling units - if you're going to run it into what's essentially a PA anyway, the sky's the limit, rackmount or no.

I'm partial to the old Boss GL-100 and the speaker sim on it (which I don't need as I either run it into an amp or into a modeller/DI) is decent for old-school analog. Any number of quite decent guitar/bass preamps exist in the rackmount realm for dirt cheap to a ton of $$.

Check the GC and Music Go Round used sites for any rackmount gear you consider buying on CL or Ebay, you can often find them a ton cheaper).

[01010111]

Yup, I'm going for the one man sonic assault!

I'm definitely trying to avoid the patchbay, but I haven't been able to find a rack mount mixer that's both not gigantic and has inputs on the front. So, it might be unavoidable... I'm definitely going to think through the layout very carefully regardless.

That earthquake cab sounds exactly like something I need! I'll have to work some kind of frequency divider into my setup to run it if I can find one.

I'm probably going to get a modeling preamp to use with my keyboard, that is, so long as it has a good enough frequency response on it. I'm definitely excited to start putting this together, because the sky really is the limit! If this works well enough I want to try and convert my synth setup to rackmount. Do you know if Roland ever made a rackmount version of their guitar midi system?

[rfurtkamp]

Roland made a rackmount synth but it's literally decades out of date. Not much call for dedicated rackmount when the floor unit is 100% MIDI controllable so for the folks who wanted to rack it, they just put it in a drawer and a floorboard or external control running to the stage or sound guy.

Some modellers will work for keys, some won't. Depends on what range you want out of them and how they interact with your particular unit.

Sometimes I run my RS-5 through the Mustang V, sometimes not. It works well for vintage-type sounds but not so much so for pristine stuff.

[01010111]

Mostly I'm interested in the Roland stuff so I can have polyphonic midi-out on my guitar. Everything else about their system does nothing for me. I want to use it to control more powerful synths like my Blofeld, and eventually the Dave Smith Prophet '08.

I suppose I could have a drawer with this stuff in it, but I was hoping to avoid that...