Help me pick a thing (FUZZ)

[DarkAxel]

SO

I'm getting a custom pedal done and i'll be paying with my Heliotrope. The reason is that even though i can get some awesome sounds with it, it's lacking certain qualities i'd like (like more treble) ... and I think I'll be good with just one Wampler Faux Tape Echo, so i'll have some money to buy a replacement for the Helio/trade for it

What I have in mind... I'm thinking either a ring mod or a fuzz. I know I should make up my mind, but the only thing i'm sure of is the purpose. The purpose is to get some cool textural guitar sounds... think NIN-type raunchy fuzzy guitars, something I imagine as "electric" fuzz. You know, if Tesla played guitar... something a bit wild, but also with a good deal of control over the sound. Oscillation is good if it's musical and controllable... Gate is good if it's musical and controllable... Octaves are the same, glitches as well... good stackers are always welcomed

I already tried one of the contenders... today, I tried the Zvex Fuzz Probe. Seriously underwhelmed, I hoped for more control over the sound, but I wasn't happy with it at all

so what i'm thinking of:

Fairfield Unpleasant Surprise - I've seen some videos... Sounds pretty interesting to me! The thing I'd be afraid of is that there's not much control over the tonality - does it get uncomfortably piercing/too muffled?

Fuzzhugger Pocket/Phantom Arcade - VERY serious contenders! I like that it can basically do everything I want it to... the thing is I usually don't buy new effects, because i'm a student and I tend to flip stuff... and these do not seem to be available used (or new when i think about it btw )

Smallsound/Bigsound Year 4545 - although I'm not sure... I've seen Bellyheart's video and it seems almost too crazy? And a bit complicated to understand the controls, very much in the Fuzz Factory/Probe manner

Dwarfcraft Hax - for the ring mod goodness. Seemed pretty good from the videos, but I have to say that as much as I love Dwarfcraft, their stuff tends to be too extreme for me to be able to tame it for my purpose

Devi Ever? - never tried anything, so I don't know I know it's gonna be probably less feature-heavy but if there's something she does that's really nice and unique and a bit crazy and inspiring and shit, tell me!

I'm set for solid higher gain rhythm (Elements), "normal" fuzz tones (FIngerprint) and OD (Fuck), so I'm really looking for something ELSE

I hope to get a nice discussion going

edit: WMD Geiger Counter Civillian Issue - worth the money? Any good?

[intothegroove]

I never tried anything from Fairfield, but they make some really cool stuff, Fuzzhugger is always amazing! I am seriously contemplating getting the new velcrobot, I have a custom absynth that I still rock hard. Same for SS/BS everything Brian makes is incredible and extremely versatile, I have owned lots of Dwarfcraft and can say that they make some really crazy stuff, really great for noise and full out amp blasting lol I used to love all of Devi's stuff, I sold my E13 Improbability Drive a month ago but I am done with her, she fucked me over to many times and is a really bad person to deal with.

I say grab some SS/BS, Fuzzhugger or Dwarfcraft, they are all very exciting and interesting and can yield so many different sounds. Oh and if you really want endless possibilities and extreme mayhem than get a Geiger Counter!

[Tristan]

If you're looking to replace the Heliotrope and also be able to get the sounds like in the video you posted in an earlier thread then I would recommend a sample rate reducer.
There's a few that might interest you:
Iron Ether FrantaBit
Lateral Sound Bit, BitFix
Malekko Bit
Montreal Assembly Wrong Side Of Uranus (though stock that doesn't come with a blend control, it could be added on later for extra versatility)
Red Panda Bitcrusher

I love the FrantaBit, it stacks really well with drive and fuzz units, alone it can sound a little harsh (especially on the bit crushing settings) but when paired with drive it tones down a little on the harshness and creates all kinds of different cool textures, very NIN like.
The sample rate reduction part is a little harder to dial in and I find that more on the obliterate side with the sample rate in the higher range, the mix about 1/3 or halfway up and the bit depth fully clockwise (no bit crushing).
It also does a freak tremolo thing on lower sample rate and bit depth settings (counter clockwise) and a water destroys everything thing with really low sample rate and bit depth settings which is fucking thunder.

If you're looking for a Fuzz with freak textures that can get pretty and mean there's a few I know that I can recommend:
Blackout Effectors Fix'd Fuzz Deluxe, Copilot FX Orbit, Freakshow FX HiRay, Iron Ether Oxide, Mellowtone Wolf Computer, Menatone Chawbox, Mooer FOG

I guess anything Superfuzz or Tone Machine like would also fit up the alley of NIN nastiness.
The Unpleasant Surprise and Idiotbox Death Ray seem interesting too for those type of textures.
The Devi Ever Fuzz pedals I tried so far (Beautiful Disaster, Disaster Fuzz old style without switch, US, War Horse) weren't really up my alley, I didn't think they were that versatile either but I haven't tried the more popular models such as the Rocket or Shoe Gazer yet so I don't know.

As for ring modulation it's quite a different effect, it doesn't always work well with Fuzz I think, sometimes it does though but the Randy's Revenge I had here to try out made it sound less heavy to me basically.
In the end I went with the Copilot Orbit to get these type of sounds as it can sound mean but the blended frequency always stays the same opposed to the continuously changing disharmonic overtones in a ring modulator that I personally do not like that much, it's also exactly the fact why I [prefer a sample rate reducer over a ring modulator.

It also depends on whether the effect / pedal should work well on chords as that would already rule some of it out I guess.
I'd say try some stuff (bitcrusher / sample rate reducer, freak fuzz, octave fuzz, oscillating fuzz, ring modulator) before buying because it doesn't seem totally clear to you yet what exactly you are looking for.

[Ghost Hip]

I feel like the Geiger Counter would be a sweet pedal for some NiN toans.

As far as Devi, why not try the Manglers that Dwarfcraft and her make? Dream and Bit Mangler specifically.

[sylnau]

Fairfield Unpleasant Surprise has lots of differents sounds in it! I really recommend it!

[DarkAxel]

NIN were used for reference, because their guitars are usually pretty messed up and textural... I play in a heavily jazz/funk influenced prog rock band and effects really have their sound in our music I loved the sample rate character I found in the Helio, but I'm not really pursuing the sample rate or NIN sounds in particular, I'm just trying to find something cool and interesting and inspiring... my main concern is that I've encountered some unique pedals, but they were sometimes kind of hard to control and understand... so that's one reason why i made this thread

but i'm kind of realizing there's simply too much cool stuff thanks for the comments so far tho

Syl, wouldn't expect anything less of you

[JuJo]

Can't say much for most of the options, as I haven't tried them, but I'd give a solid vote for the Phantom Octave. It definitely has some cool textures, and octave up or down. Also, it's not a ring mod, but some of the mode 1 settings produce some pretty similar tones. (bell-like tones with odd harmoics). Also, sputtering craziness, I'm a big fan of sputtery tones. The oscillation can get pretty crazy, but can be tamed for some really musical results. It really does do most of what you say you are looking for. Also, it stacks really well. Mode 1 was definitely designed for stacking, and the other modes all stack really well. It well take some of the oddness out of the tones and leave you with a more standard fuzz tone with crazy octaves/sputters/harmonics.

I checked out alot of demos for the Phantom Arcade and was really concerned about how useful it would be outside of crazy noises that the demos would accentuate, but I was very pleasantly surprised when I got it and am very happy with it. The only caveat is it doesn't like buffers or active pickups for producing the octave down tones or oscillation, so it has to be early in your chain, before any buffering. Alot of the extreme sounds prefer single coils to humbuckers as well.

I think the Pocket Arcade drops the 1-up control which would make it more difficult to dial in the sputtering over the octave up, but you may be able to counteract that by rolling off your volume knob. I would have to try that one though. The glitch knob that the Pocket Arcade drops can be somewhat replaced by using your guitar's tone knob.

I don't think Brian makes the year 4545 anymore, and I looked for along time, but couldn't find any used. When they did pop up I didn't have the money for it. I was also pretty concerned about that one being really crazy and hard to control.

I've always wanted an unpleasant surprise, but have never actually bought one. It seems to me it only does the gated weirdness though, and the demos seem really harsh on alot of settings.

Also the FrantaBit is awesome as mentioned above. But I seem to remember someone here posting about not liking the sample rate reduction because it gets somewhat muffled sounding, and that may have been you. I use the clean blend to even that out a bit, but it does become somewhat muffled.

[DarkAxel]

Gah so I guess sample rate reduction gets muffled by nature too bad, I love the timber

Thanks for the feedback on the Phantom Arcade to be honest, I personally think that the Phantom Arcade or the Geiger Counter might be the best choice for me, at least to start with. Both seem to offer A LOT of tones and possibilities and both seem pretty controllable to me... Too bad it seems that Phantoms really are quite hard to come by, I'll probably check the B/S/T for a while, but I think that getting the Geiger will be much easier, at least to start with...

If it doesn't work out, I still have plenty options to go with thanks for all the recommendations, all are being noted

[sylnau]

I really like my Pocket Arcade.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D50TBM9qrY[/youtube]

[Tristan]

DarkAxel:
I don't think that sample rate reducers always tend to sound muffled honestly, I do agree on the muffled sample rate thing in the FrantaBit, it's definitely not as clear and sweet sounding as the Hexe Electronics Bitcrusher III for instance (I have them both), the way I work around that is using the obliterate side with less mix and on specific sample rate settings as I stated in my earlier post, it actually works quite well and on other sample rate settings you'll also get some ring mod type sounds out of it.
The Geiger Counter has the downside of not having a mix control, which I find to be indispensable if you're also going for the nicer / sweeter sounds and not only for the nastiness.

I wasn't thinking you were going for NIN sounds but I'm a bit in the same thing like you I guess in looking for special sounds and textures that fit well into my music and sometimes can get a bit nasty but also have a certain type of niceness or sweetness to them.
For me I found that specific thing in bit crushers / sample rate reducers and certain fuzz pedals, ring mods weren't my thing, but it could work for you offcourse so try it out and see what you think.

[behndy]

moop.

[DarkAxel]

The Geiger Counter has the downside of not having a mix control, which I find to be indispensable if you're also going for the nicer / sweeter sounds and not only for the nastiness.

yeah, that's true, but from the videos I watched (PGS and Kayzer, as per usual), it seems to be just about right - especially the mellower sounds as i say - i'll probably take it as a start... but i'll keep that in mind! thanks

[Tristan]

Yeah, the Geiger does sound cool, for me it was a bit overwhelming and counter intuitive with the controls and the banks and such, it was also more difficult to get the expression pedal functioning properly and it not having a mix knob finally made me go for the Hexe Bitcrusher III and the Iron Ether FrantaBit, if it wasn't so expensive over there I would recommend you the Bitcrusher III.
Oh, by the way, I don't know how far he is with it but Ryan from Dr. Scientist is also working on a digital distortion / filter / bit crusher and it seems really interesting:
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=30749

[DarkAxel]

That looks cool, but it seems it might be way out of my league financially

also - I'm talking about the Civillian Issue Geiger the whole time so not as complicated, you know... and having 16 patches and being able to do lo-fi variation with each one of them BUT still having to deal with just Gain, Tone and Volume seems to me like a good balance

plus i'd really like to keep the limit to approximately 200 dollars

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we5JErCLwPk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OehGQLqIbeY[/youtube]

[Tristan]

Oh, right, the Civilian, I even forgot that one existed, whaha.
For me that one was out of the loop because it doesn't have an expression input and no LFO, so no sweeping the sample rate unfortunately.