The Matamp/70's Orange/EA USA Thread:

[D.o.S.]

the 200W hiwatt would be much brighter, much more british sounding, totally different style EQ. Matamp and Orange would be darker. Hiwatt would feel louder due to brightness. New Matamps? no clue to be honest. Matamp all the way for bass but i think that would depend on the kind of sound you want

I know what you're going for here, but that descriptor (as it relates to all the companies in question) is relatively hilarious.

Which sounds more "American," a Mesa, a Fender, or a Peavey?

[new05002]

the 200W hiwatt would be much brighter, much more british sounding, totally different style EQ. Matamp and Orange would be darker. Hiwatt would feel louder due to brightness. New Matamps? no clue to be honest. Matamp all the way for bass but i think that would depend on the kind of sound you want

I know what you're going for here, but that descriptor (as it relates to all the companies in question) is relatively hilarious.

Which sounds more "American," a Mesa, a Fender, or a Peavey?

When people say American I believe they most commonly mean vintage 60s Fender sound, Peavey's are generally Marshall clones, and Mesa are Fender clones that were rodded for more gain, then that was called Californian, more of a reference to where Mesa started.

British -> bright, tight, chimey mid range. Fender amps from like the 60s have that strong mid range cut, little bass attenuation and thats where the American sound came from.

The Orange and the Matamps are dark, little to no bass cute (depending upon the FAC/Depth/BassBoost setting), and the EQ does not cut mids. So tons of bass, lots of signal.

[D.o.S.]

Oh, I know. I'm just busting yer balls, since all of those amps come from the UK.

[new05002]

Oh, I know. I'm just busting yer balls, since all of those amps come from the UK.

yea i know its not the most useful metaphor. Aalso Marshall stole/borrowed/reproduced (depends on one's opinion of Marshall) the 59 Tweed Bassman into the JTM45 so it was originally a Fender design, they just made it bright and more middy and thats what came to be called "British" along with say Hiwatts and similar amps of that nature.

Personally I would not be into DR201s for bass. The preamp is the same as the DR103/DR504 rather than something that was designed for bass atleast in terms of EQ and low end cutoffs. But some people do like it. I would much rather use a 200W OrMAT/Mat design

[Bassboar]

So, like, Electric Amp Power Unit?
I really want one, what are those like under the hood?

[Gone Fission]

the traditional Orange and Matamp phase inverter is a cathodyne. The Williamson is actually half cathodyne but adds a gain stage for each output of the cathodyne to increase the amplitude for each half of the phase inverter. Normal cathodynes are done using 1 12ax7, 1 half for the driver and 1 half for the cathodyne. In a Williamson 2 12au7s are normally used so that the gain of the drive + cathodyne is low and the 2 additional gain stages can increase gain without clipping the signal. The reason why this is kind of an ideal phase inverter (again more in the hifi sense) is that cathodynes provide really good balance between its outputs in terms of matched amplitude but it suffers from limited total amplitude it can provide as compared to say a long tail pair. The Williamson keeps the awesome balance then its increases the maximum amplitude to equal to or greater than a long tail pair. Now your thinking, why the hell doesn't everyone use this configuration. Well 1, there is considerable issues with phase when applying negative feedback to a williamson and 2 it uses 2 pretubes with more current consumption than a regular 12ax7 cathodyne.

I've seen a couple post-PI drive topologies come up elsewhere, but with a LTP. Williamson, SVT, Dumbleland, and Steel String Singer. From what I've heard of demos in LTP amps, the drivers do amazing things for the bass extension and oomph. Given that slightly mismatched output tubes sometimes sound cooler than a close match, I'd never put a premium on PI balance, but I'm game to futz with cathodyne whenever I can actually afford some builds. I gather LTP+drivers post difficulties to set up right, too. (Oh, and on the cost of an extra tube, socket, and so forth, there's always mosfet source followers . . . If nothing else, a cheap way to experiment with the concept.)

[new05002]

So, like, Electric Amp Power Unit?
I really want one, what are those like under the hood?

my knowledge on them is only on the NMV and MV units

[new05002]

the traditional Orange and Matamp phase inverter is a cathodyne. The Williamson is actually half cathodyne but adds a gain stage for each output of the cathodyne to increase the amplitude for each half of the phase inverter. Normal cathodynes are done using 1 12ax7, 1 half for the driver and 1 half for the cathodyne. In a Williamson 2 12au7s are normally used so that the gain of the drive + cathodyne is low and the 2 additional gain stages can increase gain without clipping the signal. The reason why this is kind of an ideal phase inverter (again more in the hifi sense) is that cathodynes provide really good balance between its outputs in terms of matched amplitude but it suffers from limited total amplitude it can provide as compared to say a long tail pair. The Williamson keeps the awesome balance then its increases the maximum amplitude to equal to or greater than a long tail pair. Now your thinking, why the hell doesn't everyone use this configuration. Well 1, there is considerable issues with phase when applying negative feedback to a williamson and 2 it uses 2 pretubes with more current consumption than a regular 12ax7 cathodyne.

I've seen a couple post-PI drive topologies come up elsewhere, but with a LTP. Williamson, SVT, Dumbleland, and Steel String Singer. From what I've heard of demos in LTP amps, the drivers do amazing things for the bass extension and oomph. Given that slightly mismatched output tubes sometimes sound cooler than a close match, I'd never put a premium on PI balance, but I'm game to futz with cathodyne whenever I can actually afford some builds. I gather LTP+drivers post difficulties to set up right, too. (Oh, and on the cost of an extra tube, socket, and so forth, there's always mosfet source followers . . . If nothing else, a cheap way to experiment with the concept.)

The Steel Stringer uses Class AB2 coupling after a LTP. Class AB2 refers to direct coupling the grids of the output tubes so the cathode (or source if you use FETs) which has a negative voltage on it. ClassAB2 can be done with any phase inverter topology and the most common example is in the Ampeg SVT which uses a Williamson phase inverter + Class AB2 coupling. The Class AB2 allows the output tubes to pull grid current in from the cathode of the AB2 follower drivers and thus you avoid blocking distortion and increase the total power the output tubes can deliver all while maintaining stable biasing as well. Usually Class AB2 is achieved by creating 2 cathode followers for each half of the phase inverter signal with a ECC99 or 12bh7 type preamp tube. You need a large negative bias source like -100 to -150V applied to get this to work. I have done it before in the Annunaki amp with a Williamson phase inverter and ECC99 in Class AB2 coupling.

Generally people dont use drivers after a LTP unless its for AB2 since the LTP has considerable output swing and the drivers really cant adjust the balance well. there are actually better solution for improving the balance of a LTP using active devices in the tail of the LTP to achieve higher AC impedance while using low DC bias points

[TweedBassman]

I miss my Matamps.

My neighbors, and the police, do not.

[D.o.S.]

So, like, Electric Amp Power Unit?
I really want one, what are those like under the hood?

Don't do it.

I don't know how many of you guys were on stonerrock.com a few years ago, but Joel made a real dick out of himself on that site over and over again. Just get your Cisneros on and use an SVT.

[new05002]

they sound good, no denying despite his behavior on SR. His wait is long. McNeese is really the one who builds tho either way.

[nightterrors]

Personally wouldn't buy one brand new, but exactly, they DO sound good.

[new05002]

yea Unreal Never Lived is a NMV Black Unit, one of the early ones if I am not mistaken, Of course that would also be Mike's skills, and the pedal he is using as well. of course this clip of a MV unit, which i love regardless

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeoj8HGatYk[/youtube]

[nightterrors]

[nightterrors]

ORST on ebay!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-70-Orange- ... 3f255ecf1d