The Doom Room: ILF Edition

[Ancient Astronaught]

/\ Agreed!!!

[samzadgan]

i think ive settled on this

vox sdc 33
ill change my mind 3 times
before i actually have the loot
then when i do im gonna get somethin else
be dissapointed
and repeat that twice
until i get this
and its probably gonna suck balls
hopefully the whole process takes 2 weeks
and i can move on with my life

mate...you buying/bought this? or still looking?

[ridingeternity]

Just had a flash of recording inspiration and was wondering if anyone here had ever tried something like this, my band is going in to record our second album in June and the engineer mentioned he would like to record a clean amp at the same time as well. Now I know the benefits to running clean with distorted and am planning on implementing this into my live rig...but here was the mixing theory I came up with based on that and wanted to see if anyone had done something similar:

2 4x12 Cabs

Clean Cab A: 1xSM57 1xSennheiser MD421
Distortion Cab B: 1xSM57 1xSennheiser MD421

Mix:

SM57 A panned hard right
Senn A panned 70-100% left

SM57 B panned hard left
Senn B panned 70-100% right

Leaving some fat space in the middle for bass, kick and vox.

Are you going to be re-amping the clean tone into a dirt tone? Swapping sides like that can cause some phase issues unless your dead on with the playing and mic'ing of the cab. It's much easier to keep the mic pairs together, so both Cab A mics hard right and both Cab B mics hard right. But if your going to be keeping the clean tone actually clean then your idea could work but you have to think about how your going to eventually mix it in, if your keeping it clean it will be barely audible if at all so splitting the signal into two different mics maybe fruitless. The subtle differences of the mics would get lost in the mix and it could cause more phase issues. Your better off IMO doing one clean take with one mic then duplicating it and and putting them both at hard pan L/R, then when you record the dirty guitar you do the 2 mic's and hard pan them as well it should give you a really full sound and the clean overlay will definitely help with note definition. Do the most with the least amount of mics and takes, and your engineer will love you.

Awesome, thank you very much for the input! The duplication of the clean makes a lot of sense and im glad I was faced with that practicality before even wasting my time asking the engineer about it. I'll probably just let him do his thing, all I know is I really like the SM57/MD421 pairing and think that for a power trio it's the perfect combo as you get the classic 57 tone while adding some body and fullness with the MD421...probably great for dual guits too if you follow the classic lead/rhythm model...hope to pick up an MD421 for myself sometime soon here to experiment...have this wild idea of recording rhythm on neck pup with the MD421 and lead on bridge pup with the SM57.

[new05002]

Stacked the emperors, but forgot camera so crap ipod shot

[misterstomach]

Just had a flash of recording inspiration and was wondering if anyone here had ever tried something like this, my band is going in to record our second album in June and the engineer mentioned he would like to record a clean amp at the same time as well. Now I know the benefits to running clean with distorted and am planning on implementing this into my live rig...but here was the mixing theory I came up with based on that and wanted to see if anyone had done something similar:

2 4x12 Cabs

Clean Cab A: 1xSM57 1xSennheiser MD421
Distortion Cab B: 1xSM57 1xSennheiser MD421

Mix:

SM57 A panned hard right
Senn A panned 70-100% left

SM57 B panned hard left
Senn B panned 70-100% right

Leaving some fat space in the middle for bass, kick and vox.

Are you going to be re-amping the clean tone into a dirt tone? Swapping sides like that can cause some phase issues unless your dead on with the playing and mic'ing of the cab. It's much easier to keep the mic pairs together, so both Cab A mics hard right and both Cab B mics hard right. But if your going to be keeping the clean tone actually clean then your idea could work but you have to think about how your going to eventually mix it in, if your keeping it clean it will be barely audible if at all so splitting the signal into two different mics maybe fruitless. The subtle differences of the mics would get lost in the mix and it could cause more phase issues. Your better off IMO doing one clean take with one mic then duplicating it and and putting them both at hard pan L/R, then when you record the dirty guitar you do the 2 mic's and hard pan them as well it should give you a really full sound and the clean overlay will definitely help with note definition. Do the most with the least amount of mics and takes, and your engineer will love you.

Awesome, thank you very much for the input! The duplication of the clean makes a lot of sense and im glad I was faced with that practicality before even wasting my time asking the engineer about it. I'll probably just let him do his thing, all I know is I really like the SM57/MD421 pairing and think that for a power trio it's the perfect combo as you get the classic 57 tone while adding some body and fullness with the MD421...probably great for dual guits too if you follow the classic lead/rhythm model...hope to pick up an MD421 for myself sometime soon here to experiment...have this wild idea of recording rhythm on neck pup with the MD421 and lead on bridge pup with the SM57.

if i were in a single guitar band and wanted a clean backing track, i would probably record two dirt tracks, panned about 70-80% on each side and center pan a much quieter clean track. doubling up on your dirt tracks goes a long way toward getting a fuller thicker guitar sound. the clean track will add crispness and clarity, but i think it works best when it's very subtle underneath the main guitar sound. and actually, the idea of duplicating the clean and hard panning them is a pretty cool idea too.

[ridingeternity]

Here's hoping this might make someone else's day in the doom room a little brighter like it did mine:

[CaptainBoxman]

Ahahahahahahaha

[LOCOPELAND]

lulz

[MSUsousaphone]

That gif popped up right when Spotify got to the part of Aaron Copeland's Appalachian Spring's Simple Gifts medly thing.....and it synced up real nice.

[Ancient Astronaught]

Awesome, thank you very much for the input! The duplication of the clean makes a lot of sense and im glad I was faced with that practicality before even wasting my time asking the engineer about it. I'll probably just let him do his thing, all I know is I really like the SM57/MD421 pairing and think that for a power trio it's the perfect combo as you get the classic 57 tone while adding some body and fullness with the MD421...probably great for dual guits too if you follow the classic lead/rhythm model...hope to pick up an MD421 for myself sometime soon here to experiment...have this wild idea of recording rhythm on neck pup with the MD421 and lead on bridge pup with the SM57.

No problem buddy!! Those two are a classic mic combo for guitar amps, and for good reason! Your dead on right that you get the classic 57 cleanliness and the body and richness from the 421. As far as using one for neck pickup rythmns and one for bridge you gotta think about it this way: You want to balance out the signal on each track so its flat, if you pair each mic with the pickup that matches it you'll have one that is super bassy and thick and one that is the exact opposite. They'll sound like completely different guitar tracks but they would both require alot of EQ to balance each other out since your working with two tones on opposite ends of the spectrum. If you use the 421 on the bridge it will thicken it up and make it fuller so that it uneffected it will have the same body and fullness of the rythmn track, then put the 57 on the neck so that its a flat response and boom they both match tonally and will fit together easier with less eq and compression. Recording is all about less is more and pre-planning (aka pre-production).

if i were in a single guitar band and wanted a clean backing track, i would probably record two dirt tracks, panned about 70-80% on each side and center pan a much quieter clean track. doubling up on your dirt tracks goes a long way toward getting a fuller thicker guitar sound. the clean track will add crispness and clarity, but i think it works best when it's very subtle underneath the main guitar sound. and actually, the idea of duplicating the clean and hard panning them is a pretty cool idea too.

The problem with that setup is it will throw off the ear when listening to it. With mixing in the clean track quietly to just bring out some clarity you'll have this barely audible clarity in the middle and what its supposed to be working with and apart of in a completely different location. It would be like talking to someone eye to eye and hearing their voice come from behind you, it makes sense but weirds you out. I've always had the most success with taking the clean track and duplicating it for how ever many dirty tracks their are, panning them to the same place and then blending them together, so you get one cohesive sound. Even though there will be three tracks per take (clean, 57, 421) you want them to sound like one tone and instrument, having them panned in different locations defeats that purpose. I'm not saying that what I'm saying is a golden rule or anything, I'm just relaying the experiences I've had. Every session requires different techniques and different ideas so experimentation is key.

[ryan summit]

i think ive settled on this

vox sdc 33
ill change my mind 3 times
before i actually have the loot
then when i do im gonna get somethin else
be dissapointed
and repeat that twice
until i get this
and its probably gonna suck balls
hopefully the whole process takes 2 weeks
and i can move on with my life

mate...you buying/bought this? or still looking?

gonna bang up this fence job first
i got the loot now
but every time i use money before the job is done
there ends up bein problems
and i resent whatever it is i bought
like i dont deserve it
already got the ok from the gf
not that she'd say no
next friday
unless someone talks me out of it

[ridingeternity]

Awesome, thank you very much for the input! The duplication of the clean makes a lot of sense and im glad I was faced with that practicality before even wasting my time asking the engineer about it. I'll probably just let him do his thing, all I know is I really like the SM57/MD421 pairing and think that for a power trio it's the perfect combo as you get the classic 57 tone while adding some body and fullness with the MD421...probably great for dual guits too if you follow the classic lead/rhythm model...hope to pick up an MD421 for myself sometime soon here to experiment...have this wild idea of recording rhythm on neck pup with the MD421 and lead on bridge pup with the SM57.

No problem buddy!! Those two are a classic mic combo for guitar amps, and for good reason! Your dead on right that you get the classic 57 cleanliness and the body and richness from the 421. As far as using one for neck pickup rythmns and one for bridge you gotta think about it this way: You want to balance out the signal on each track so its flat, if you pair each mic with the pickup that matches it you'll have one that is super bassy and thick and one that is the exact opposite. They'll sound like completely different guitar tracks but they would both require alot of EQ to balance each other out since your working with two tones on opposite ends of the spectrum. If you use the 421 on the bridge it will thicken it up and make it fuller so that it uneffected it will have the same body and fullness of the rythmn track, then put the 57 on the neck so that its a flat response and boom they both match tonally and will fit together easier with less eq and compression. Recording is all about less is more and pre-planning (aka pre-production).

Ahhh that makes a lot of sense...so with this combo(the rhythm and lead was just a theoretical if we had 2 guitarists) I was thinking on-axis Sm57, off-axis MD421...but with your previous insight it sounds like off-axis SM57 on-axis MD421 might just be the ticket.

[new05002]

I always have dug large body condensors, a few feet off the mic, above the cab level to get that in the ear type of sound. Depends on what your shooting for tho, do you wanna capture what you hear in the room or manipulate the mics to get something else.

[Ancient Astronaught]

Ahhh that makes a lot of sense...so with this combo(the rhythm and lead was just a theoretical if we had 2 guitarists) I was thinking on-axis Sm57, off-axis MD421...but with your previous insight it sounds like off-axis SM57 on-axis MD421 might just be the ticket.

Yup your latter idea would be what i would go with! The MD421 does best on-axis, and the 57 is great at off axis stuff.

[ridingeternity]

I always have dug large body condensors, a few feet off the mic, above the cab level to get that in the ear type of sound. Depends on what your shooting for tho, do you wanna capture what you hear in the room or manipulate the mics to get something else.

I used an AT2020 condenser in combination with an SM57 on the EP we recorded and definitely liked the layered sound...but there was a lot about that whole process that could have gone much much better to produce a greater end-result....perhaps i'll try my hand at remix/master once my abilities are more refined.

Really can't wait to finish off the guitar rig to start favoring studio gear again...I appreciate having an engineer to help out but know for a fact if I had enough quality inputs and decent mics I could produce pleasing results while also being able to freely experiment along the way.