Low wattage clean amp questions?

[huggernaut]

I've been solving this problem of a home practice / recording amp for awhile with a small( ish) tube amp and a Weber miniMASS attenuator. But this is the second or third thread about this in a few days.

People seem to get hung up on the solid state or hybrid thing, even though they can't really get a Class A/B tube power amp that's quiet enough. I've been thinking about this a lot, and there are a lot of little mass-produced tube practice amps, and then expensive boutique amps based on a Champ-like circuit, mainly the Swart amps. What do you guys think about the idea of small hybrid combo amps that are lightweight, but handbuilt? I could put together a 12ax7 preamp with a Class-D solid state power amp. (Class D is noticeably better to my ears for hifi than other transistor amps and is much more efficient.) it'd be, in a sense, "boutique", but way cheaper than something likes Swart or the new Marshall 1 watt heads. Focus on the design would be clean headroom with the ability to overdrive the tube preamp nicely, which seems to be what pedal heads are after in a practice amp. And since Class-D amps are so efficient and rather cheap, while it could ship with a small speaker as a combo, it could have a speaker out and 200ish watts on tap to drive bigger cabs. I imagine it'd compete with things like the ZT Lunchbox, which has a hard time convincing people to try it due to its SS nature.

Thoughts?

This sounds like exactly what I'd want, especially if there's some kind of toneshaping? I'd love you forever if you did something like this. And pay you (somewhat) handsomely.

[t-rey]

Just because no one else suggested it yet: Get a ZT Lunchbox.

That said, I have a GVT15H now and love it It does the clean thing nicely and still has some gain on tap. You can keep it clean and stack pedals nicely in front of it; let it warm up the signal a bit. Or if you want more gain than the preamp gives you, it seems to take being pushed with a boost or OD really well, and that's how you can get your dirtier tones. Also, the EQ is really nice; but it's boost or cut which is a new-to-me thing for an amp. I haven't pushed it very loud because I'm in a similar situation and can't crank amps in my apartment :/ I only got to really open up the master volume today while I was home for lunch and the downstairs neighbors were gone.

I've also had a couple Epi valve jr's, modded them, Etc. Turned my last one into a Supro circuit (parts from Watts Audio.) the problem with the Epi Valve Jr's that I always had is the volume is also the gain, and it gets dirty. I rather wish it was clean with a gain knob to crank up.

The more I think about it, the more I'm tempted by the Ampeg. I want Skullservant's Sunn, but a 60w kt88 beast for the house seems like it could be a little overkill

I should probably look into something like the Lunchbox, especially once I have kids and need something that sounds good and is ultra quiet.

Didn't quote it, but I like your idea about the hybrid amp for folks like me who need good cleans/pedal friendly/home volumes.

[mathias]

I'll work on something and let you guys know when there's a DIY thread for it

[Gone Fission]

The Orange MicroTerror approaches Matthias' idea, except for relatively low power and the head format. I gather the mini cab designed to go with is a pass. Don't know how much headroom there is for the thing, but the demos don't seem to suck.

[777mick777]

Valve junior! Cheap and good as fuck.

[huggernaut]

The Orange MicroTerror approaches Matthias' idea, except for relatively low power and the head format. I gather the mini cab designed to go with is a pass. Don't know how much headroom there is for the thing, but the demos don't seem to suck.

I'm under the impression that the headroom is relatively low and therefore worthless to me.

[the_carl]

The Orange MicroTerror approaches Matthias' idea, except for relatively low power and the head format. I gather the mini cab designed to go with is a pass. Don't know how much headroom there is for the thing, but the demos don't seem to suck.

I'm under the impression that the headroom is relatively low and therefore worthless to me.

I have one (just the head), and the headroom is kinda not great I guess? Depends on what's going into it. With my strat there's no breakup at all until the gain knob is past noon, whereas with my SPB-3 equipped bass there is no setting where it doesn't break up at least a little. The drive doesn't sound too great on its own IMO (kinda harsh) but can be cool with fuzzes and such. It gets really mushy if you run stuff into it on higher gain settings, though; the range where it sounds good is kind of small. It's fine to deal with if you're not trying to play with other peeps, though.

[Moustache_Bash]

I should probably look into something like the Lunchbox, especially once I have kids and need something that sounds good and is ultra quiet.

Lunchbox actually pounds.

[skullservant]

yeah, aren't they like 200w? Killer little amps

[hiorgos]

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[mathias]

I play at home with a SS Pathfinder 10, and there is this paper now on the elevator inviting people to be moderated with their music levels. I wouldn't ever consider a tube amp for an apartment!.

I've been saying for years that I can't play a normal tube amp at home, and typically guitar forum folks would give me the and tell me to man up. But it's totally true, especially if you're like me and don't even get home and get a chance to play until it's the hours of 10PM-2AM, usually. Not exactly the time that your neighbors want you cranking a 50 watt tube amp or whatever.

Edited, related to overall thread: Do you guys consider it acceptable to play into a pair of really nice headphones? (I play an attenuator into a mixer into some AKG studios late at night, but I know the sound is not nearly the same as pushing a real speaker cab.)

[Gone Fission]

I do need to wind the Lunchbox pretty low to play at neighbor-friendly volumes in my single-family house. Doable, but not fully in line with the situation. The new Lunchbox Jr. is only 35 watts, is about half the price, and powers pedals, so it may be a very nice solution for folks around here, though I haven't tried one personally.

I'm not necessarily against headphones, but most headphone outs on amps don't account for the headphones being full-range. Much as I'm not a fan of modelers in general principal, that is one thing most of them do pretty well, providing a setting to feed a flat-response output. I'm sure Palmer and other folks have speaker-simulated headphone outs on some of their products, but a Pathfinder is a lot cheaper.

[AngryGoldfish]

I've been solving this problem of a home practice / recording amp for awhile with a small( ish) tube amp and a Weber miniMASS attenuator. But this is the second or third thread about this in a few days.

People seem to get hung up on the solid state or hybrid thing, even though they can't really get a Class A/B tube power amp that's quiet enough. I've been thinking about this a lot, and there are a lot of little mass-produced tube practice amps, and then expensive boutique amps based on a Champ-like circuit, mainly the Swart amps. What do you guys think about the idea of small hybrid combo amps that are lightweight, but handbuilt? I could put together a 12ax7 preamp with a Class-D solid state power amp. (Class D is noticeably better to my ears for hifi than other transistor amps and is much more efficient.) it'd be, in a sense, "boutique", but way cheaper than something likes Swart or the new Marshall 1 watt heads. Focus on the design would be clean headroom with the ability to overdrive the tube preamp nicely, which seems to be what pedal heads are after in a practice amp. And since Class-D amps are so efficient and rather cheap, while it could ship with a small speaker as a combo, it could have a speaker out and 200ish watts on tap to drive bigger cabs. I imagine it'd compete with things like the ZT Lunchbox, which has a hard time convincing people to try it due to its SS nature.

Thoughts?

If you can develop the EQ with music that us folks would usually play (post-rock, post-metal, shoegaze, sludge, alternative, etc.) then I would be in on this.

I play at home with a SS Pathfinder 10, and there is this paper now on the elevator inviting people to be moderated with their music levels. I wouldn't ever consider a tube amp for an apartment!.

I've been saying for years that I can't play a normal tube amp at home, and typically guitar forum folks would give me the and tell me to man up. But it's totally true, especially if you're like me and don't even get home and get a chance to play until it's the hours of 10PM-2AM, usually. Not exactly the time that your neighbors want you cranking a 50 watt tube amp or whatever.

Edited, related to overall thread: Do you guys consider it acceptable to play into a pair of really nice headphones? (I play an attenuator into a mixer into some AKG studios late at night, but I know the sound is not nearly the same as pushing a real speaker cab.)

I must say that I wouldn't have any interest in playing with headphones unless I was recording. Part of the magic of playing guitar is the interaction between you and the speaker. I have a high quality pair of in-ear 'phones that cost $299 from Ultimate Ears, but I don't like playing guitar through them.

[mathias]

I need to check with Tom on whether I can post it as a DIY thread or not, because I don't think I'll be making a business out of it.. but I bought some Class-D amp boards yesterday to begin prototyping something small, that'd be EQ'd better for pedal-loving folks that are into the kind of stuff people here at ILF play, and that meet some of the requests I've seen for small SS practice combos in threads here. Hence all the questions.. and now another question:

Is a tube preamp more than just a mojo thing for you guys? Absolute requirement? What about tube-sounding preamp with a JFET, like some of the RunOffGroove pedals do? Definitely would improve control over headroom and limit complexity/cost to not do tube preamp..

[AngryGoldfish]

I'd feel a little better knowing it had a valve in there somewhere, but I haven't really tried a high quality solid state amp, that wasn't a modeller, in a very long time. And I haven't played an amp with an ss poweramp and a tube preamp ever, so I can't really give you a firm answer. All I can do is say that I have always preferred the feel and sound of a tube amp. It would be awesome to have something like the Acoustic Control bass and guitar amps from years ago in a portable format. Big volume would be great, but if it compromised on other things such as weight then I'd be happy with the ZT Lunchbox type of thing.

JFET's are definitely easy to work with when you want a more natural sounding overdrive, but whether it would be as inclined to take pedals better, that's something I just don't know. I don't personally like to push a pedal into a pedal THAT much, but I do love to boost a tube preamp, if that makes a difference.