The Chorus of the Cosmos... first demo page 34!

[AngryGoldfish]

I bought loads of zipties and clips and tape three years ago when I first started constructing my board, but I never actually got round to using them. Not to say that sticking to the same thing is bad—on the contrary—but I just haven't found a set-up that I liked enough to permanently tie it down. I've started gigging again, though, so I might end up changing that and saving up for a second board that I can take out with me that is tied down.

[Ryan]

Ryan, is the thrid version of this pedal meant to replace the v2? or supplement it?

The v3 is a total replacement of the v2... the v2 has actually been retired now for over a year and a half, it's long gone and won't be around again. And there won't be a v4 either... v3 forever, baby!

Did the previous versions of the Cosmichorus use SMD's too?

The previous versions were all through hole but don't get hung up on that detail. The SMD parts I use are exactly the same as their through hole counter parts, exact same Kemet Golden Max caps and Panasonic 1% metal film resistors, same op amps and actives. The electrolytics are through hole since I don't like smd electros, too flimsy, and I don't do smd transistors either so they're through hole too, only because I had a hard time finding the right smd trannies with enough juice so I just went with my regular through hole ones. I can't do this build through hole though, it would have to be in a much bigger box, plus I can't do it by hand, it takes me a solid two days to populate one pcb.

Not to go off on an SMD rant but smd parts are lower noise, higher durability/reliability (barring the flimsy electros), and the machines do everything perfectly every time, 100% consistency. *Martha Stewart voice* SMD is a good thing.

The CC V3 will be right at the very heart of my Jnepo1-built board! :) Can't wait to have a space-themed CC in there to complete my Sci-fi board(as named by a TGP member - Mad Prof, Dr Scientist,XTS Atomic, Vertex Axis, Robotalk :lol: )-

Badass board, Edgie, and way to go, Jerry!

Ok, so progress update... still waiting on quotes! It's a good spot to be in though, the quotes will come in next week, we'll place the order, and be about 6 weeks away from having the pcbs in hand... and the boxes take about that long too... so it's trucking along just right at the moment!

[edgie]

Thanks guys.

This board has what for me are the essential pedals(except for the robotalk which is really intended for a VFE phaser I haven't bought yet) I need for my blues-rock and modern rock band. There is a breakout section on the Fallout Labs interface that will allow me to patch in other effects or even another board in the signal chain. This is where I plan to put the experimental effects or if they need to be first/last in chain, they'll be before/after my board.

When I had a pedaltrain where I use batteries for drive pedals and have to keep on unplugging input cables after use to preserve battery life, I often run into patch cable problems. Happens a lot too switching effects around so i realized i really have to have a stable board and the switching around will happen outside of it.

[AngryGoldfish]

Is it a lot of money to hire an outside company to populate an smd board? Would it be cheaper to do it yourself based on how long it can take you? So, say for arguments sake, you get paid $20CAD an hour, is it cheaper to populate a board yourself over two days than to pay a machine to do it?

[Ryan]

Well not really..not in the long run... the machine will populate a v3 board for about $20 - $30 each plus the cost of components and the pcb and shipping and tax, plus there's still a half-hour of work in each board for me to do the through-hole parts. For me to do it all, we'd be lucky to be able to put out half a dozen Cosmichorus pedals per week... to pay me $20 an hour to do those pcbs would drive the price of the pedal up to $500 probably, maybe more, and we'd be a year behind with orders in a month since my output would be so low.

And I wouldn't want to train somebody to populate these boards, it would be super tough for a noob to pick it up and get as good as me, and it would be a huge waste of human effort spending that kind of time populating.

I actually think it's a waste of a human's time to make any pcb when a machine can do it perfectly... humans should do things like problem solve and come up with new ideas and do customer service and research and development... stuff the pcb machines can't do... but I still do a couple by hand because it's cheaper to do myself, like the Frazz and Elements, they're each about an hour work for me and it's not a problem for me to keep up with orders doing that... although realistically, those pedals would be a buck or two cheaper if a machine made the boards... my time is more expensive and a lot more rare than the machines.

Doing pedals like this Cosmichorus while staying super small scale like I like is a bit of a balancing act... I have to balance productivity and output with cost and time and I have to decide what things are reasonable for me to take on and what things aren't. Populating SMD boards with a dozen ICs and almost 200 resistors and caps and diodes ain't reasonable for me to take on, even if each Cosmichorus was $500, because it would tie up all of my time doing something 100% repetitive and brainless, whole days of work doing nothing but soldering tiny components... no thanks!

[goroth]

I love that you take the time to give detailed answers to pretty much all questions Ryan. It's awesome. And you manage to keep stuff concise while covering a fair bit of ground so ahhhh...

[AngryGoldfish]

Totally agree, mate. Thanks for the great answer, Ryan. I'm glad you aren't one to crush curiosity.

[Ryan]

Good question for sure, buddy! And it's totally subjective to each business too, you could ask a different company that same question about how they balance time and man-power and expenses and get very different ideas... our story will always be a little different because I set up Dr. Sci so that I can do every job in the business and it changes how I have to build pedals and how I have to use my time.

[Waterpilot]

I love that you take the time to give detailed answers to pretty much all questions Ryan. It's awesome. And you manage to keep stuff concise while covering a fair bit of ground so ahhhh...

AGREED! So awesome.

[allicio]

Well not really..not in the long run... the machine will populate a v3 board for about $20 - $30 each plus the cost of components and the pcb and shipping and tax, plus there's still a half-hour of work in each board for me to do the through-hole parts. For me to do it all, we'd be lucky to be able to put out half a dozen Cosmichorus pedals per week... to pay me $20 an hour to do those pcbs would drive the price of the pedal up to $500 probably, maybe more, and we'd be a year behind with orders in a month since my output would be so low.

And I wouldn't want to train somebody to populate these boards, it would be super tough for a noob to pick it up and get as good as me, and it would be a huge waste of human effort spending that kind of time populating.

I actually think it's a waste of a human's time to make any pcb when a machine can do it perfectly... humans should do things like problem solve and come up with new ideas and do customer service and research and development... stuff the pcb machines can't do... but I still do a couple by hand because it's cheaper to do myself, like the Frazz and Elements, they're each about an hour work for me and it's not a problem for me to keep up with orders doing that... although realistically, those pedals would be a buck or two cheaper if a machine made the boards... my time is more expensive and a lot more rare than the machines.

In the immortal words of lister:
*scouse accent* good answer man! Good answer!

Doing pedals like this Cosmichorus while staying super small scale like I like is a bit of a balancing act... I have to balance productivity and output with cost and time and I have to decide what things are reasonable for me to take on and what things aren't. Populating SMD boards with a dozen ICs and almost 200 resistors and caps and diodes ain't reasonable for me to take on, even if each Cosmichorus was $500, because it would tie up all of my time doing something 100% repetitive and brainless, whole days of work doing nothing but soldering tiny components... no thanks!

[Scruffie]

Well not really..not in the long run... the machine will populate a v3 board for about $20 - $30 each plus the cost of components and the pcb and shipping and tax, plus there's still a half-hour of work in each board for me to do the through-hole parts. For me to do it all, we'd be lucky to be able to put out half a dozen Cosmichorus pedals per week... to pay me $20 an hour to do those pcbs would drive the price of the pedal up to $500 probably, maybe more, and we'd be a year behind with orders in a month since my output would be so low.

And I wouldn't want to train somebody to populate these boards, it would be super tough for a noob to pick it up and get as good as me, and it would be a huge waste of human effort spending that kind of time populating.

I actually think it's a waste of a human's time to make any pcb when a machine can do it perfectly... humans should do things like problem solve and come up with new ideas and do customer service and research and development... stuff the pcb machines can't do... but I still do a couple by hand because it's cheaper to do myself, like the Frazz and Elements, they're each about an hour work for me and it's not a problem for me to keep up with orders doing that... although realistically, those pedals would be a buck or two cheaper if a machine made the boards... my time is more expensive and a lot more rare than the machines.

In the immortal words of lister:
*scouse accent* good answer man! Good answer!

Doing pedals like this Cosmichorus while staying super small scale like I like is a bit of a balancing act... I have to balance productivity and output with cost and time and I have to decide what things are reasonable for me to take on and what things aren't. Populating SMD boards with a dozen ICs and almost 200 resistors and caps and diodes ain't reasonable for me to take on, even if each Cosmichorus was $500, because it would tie up all of my time doing something 100% repetitive and brainless, whole days of work doing nothing but soldering tiny components... no thanks!

I read the,

In the immortal words of lister:
*scouse accent* good answer man! Good answer!

Just as he said it on TV, Red Dwarf Weekend on the lead up to series 10, woop!

Sorry... entirely unrelated but it was a funny coincidence.

On topic though, not gunna get in to the whole unleaded/leaded thang but when the machines do the boards for you Ryan, do they use unleaded on the SMD parts? Just wondering if you can actually get Leaded factory production still.

[Holy Schnikes]

When can one buy this masterpiece?

Also, just WOW on the custom jwar/excane etching box, me likey whole bunchey!!!

[Ryan]

*scouse accent* good answer man! Good answer!

Haha! *high five* Season 10 booyeah! So Lister's accent is called 'scouse' hey? I love his accent, wish I could talk like that. I love seeing Chris Barrie do impressions of him, he nails his voice perfectly and it's really funny. So where does that scouse accent come from? Manchester?

On topic though, not gunna get in to the whole unleaded/leaded thang but when the machines do the boards for you Ryan, do they use unleaded on the SMD parts? Just wondering if you can actually get Leaded factory production still.

Yo Pete! Leaded isn't even an option with the pcb houses but I'm ok with that... it gets me an RoHS symbol on the pcb even though I still used leaded solder. *wink* Never had a problem with the unleaded stuff though, I don't mind.

When can one buy this masterpiece?

Also, just WOW on the custom jwar/excane etching box, me likey whole bunchey!!!

Yo Shannon! Long time no ILF for you! I still don't have production quotes for the pcbs and boxes so they aren't officially ordered but I think they will be by next week and from there we'll be 6ish weeks away plus shipping time before I can start building. So that'll give us time to get the t-shirts ordered, the picks have arrived already, and the pre-order will go up when I know the time frames more accurately.

[Holy Schnikes]

Excellent Ryan and Yo right back at ya, it has been awhile. Nice to be back!

Oh, and count me in good buddy!

[ninnghizidda]

I'd think that properly done lead-free connections have potential for better conductivity, anyway. I've been using this Sn96.5 Ag3.0 Cu0.5 solder lately and it's actually been pretty badass. I figure even small amounts of silver and copper conduct way better than just tin and lead.