The Elements... *teaser pic July 5, page 16*

[hazelwould]

I'd like the have a boost that could be either added to the distortion or as a separate clean boost with the active EQ. So you have just distortion, boosted distortion, or boost. All with EQ control. I'd love to have those tonal options and a Swiss army knife of a dirt box.

[oinkbanana]

if I had to go all out, this is what I'd want:

knobs:
o Gain
o Clean Blend
o Volume
o Treble
o Bass
o Mids
o Mids frequency select [from 150hz-4000hz]. (I know you can figure out something out for this that's more then just a toggle. )
o compressor knob (keeping knob at zero would have no compression, or turn it up for more compressed effected sound)
switches:
— pre/post EQ
— clipping options (this i'm not too attached to. i'm sure you'd pick a delicious flavour)
— gain off toggle could bypass the "gain" section and make the pedal a cleanliness
Expression:
control the mid sweep knob (this is a feature I've always dreamed of. no idea if others would like or use this type of feature)


what flavor of gain are you gonna be aiming for? what big meaty rock and roll album are you thinking of?

125B box only if it's a stereo pedal

and because top mounted jacks and bottom of the box stomps aren't taken for granted. never give that up!

[microwerx]

I think having the expression control for clean to mean would be pretty sweet. I also like the pre/post eq switching option. I like the treble/mid/bass option.

I think having the parametric control over the mid frequency would be the most flexible but I could handle the three way toggle. Might I suggest 400Hz and 750Hz as two definite must haves for me? Also perhaps something around 3.5KHz so you can do a top boost like thing as well?

I think it would be cool to have a way to change the way that the clipping works so you can customize what kind of distortion that you get. Maybe a three way so you can pick symmetrical, asymmetrical (single sided), and asymmetrical (double sided). And this is one idea for a potential customizable effect. Put some sockets so you can pick what kind of diodes you want to use....

And I'm definitely onboard without having the battery.

CONTROLS: GAIN, TREBLE, MIDS, MID FREQUENCY, BASS, MIX, VOLUME, CLIPPING
JACKS: INPUT, OUTPUT, MIX CONTROL

I think this would be a great setup that could fit in the normal cleanness style box.

[microwerx]

@oinkbanana:

I saw your suggestion about the expression control for the mid sweep knob. This would just sound like a wah wah pedal. I tried doing this manually with a Metal Zone once and it was the same effect. Cool idea nonetheless for a distortion box.

[bdunlap]

Hmm...

Knobs:
-Volume
-Gain
-Bass
-Mids
-Treble
-Blend
-Voltage Sag

Switches:
-Pre/post EQ switching (Probably not enough room for this, but maybe have each band be independently switchable as pre/post?)
-Clipping options (LED, Sym, Asym, etc.)
-Tone stack bypass
-Gain bypass for clean boostin'

Expression:
-Clean/Dirty blend

Maybe have it be able to run on 9/18v?

[bdunlap]

If you did decide to do an expression out for the mids, you could probably get some pretty cool Loveless type swells

[oinkbanana]

@oinkbanana:
I saw your suggestion about the expression control for the mid sweep knob. This would just sound like a wah wah pedal. I tried doing this manually with a Metal Zone once and it was the same effect. Cool idea nonetheless for a distortion box.

it's as much a wah as a phaser is a flanger

[StudioShutIn]

I like what I've read so far, but I had a question. If it turns out that the voltage-sag control would cause uncontrollable oscillation, would it be possible to, if not completely removing this control, replacing it instead with some sort of switchable 'filter' control, that might invite more lo-fi/bandpass-y sort of tones to the party?
My knowledge of analog signal processing is fairly basic..so I'm not sure how this would be implemented, if it's even possible...

[Scruffie]

Pots:
-Volume
-Gain
-Bass & Treble
-Compression/Tightness

Switches:
-3-Way Diode Switch (Aysm - 1N4148/ Nothing/ Sym - LEDs) Hopefully in the Nothing position it'll be clean enough for those that want it to save on a seperate switch.
-For Mids I actually like a 3-way selector for Scooped, Flat & Boosted rather than a pot... but a pot would still be cool.
-If you use the 386-4, depending on current draw, a 9V/18V switch using a LT1054 charge pump internally (100ma) might be useful if there's enough difference in tone... perhaps keep this an internal PCB mount switch as it probably wouldn't be changed much...
-Pre/Post EQ
-Tone Stack Bypass

I always found Voltage Sagging & 386s wasn't all that great... suppose it depends what's around it.
Expressions... on a distortion i'm indifferent about, I'd save my expression pedal spaces for more needy effects.

'Thickner'... if you used a 3207 or 3007 BBD set to a veryyy short delay time by buffering it, it could add a pleasent thickness to the sound, not modulated like a chorus and not like a slap back but just something that seperates the two stereo lines very slightly... it wouldn't require a mass amount of board space either... but I can see that might be taking things a bit too far.

[Ryan]

Could we ditch clean blend for some more stranger stuff?

I've been thinking this too, B-man, that The Elements could use a little more fun... and Pete came up with some good stuff, more on that! (I'd still keep the clean blend though, I think that's an important feature.)

I'd like the have a boost that could be either added to the distortion or as a separate clean boost with the active EQ. So you have just distortion, boosted distortion, or boost. All with EQ control. I'd love to have those tonal options and a Swiss army knife of a dirt box.

I was thinking this too, that it would be cool if the Elements could do everything the Cleanness could do and I have it set up that way now on the bread board and I like it. Clean boost and clean EQ just like the Cleanness plus a whole bunch more.

The problem with this route is I'm using two different paths for the low/med gain side (all op amps) and the high gain side (386), and it's made the pre/post eq switching very complicated as now I have to do it for low and high gain sides... worrying about that later though since I really like being able to make all the Cleanness sounds with this thing.

Pre/Post EQ option could be something that goes away... all my experimentations this weekend have shown me that the EQ section really only sounds good in one position anyway (pre) and that position works best for the clean boost/low gain side of things as that's how the Cleanness is set up, so ultimately it'll come down to where does it sound best, what position makes for the most versatility, how complicated the switching would get. (I don't really want to use 4PDT toggle switches in this build for example, or 6PDT if that's even done.)

Same for the clipping options, I always try a million variations of symmetrical, asymmetrical, GE, SI, all the different LEDs, plus open... not everything is worth doing or even sounds any different, so I'm going to just cherry pick the best/most obvious ones. I think I'll do a 3 way toggle with one position being SI diodes, one side being GE or a combo for asym, and the middle position will be open for diode lift which on the low gain setting takes you to a normal Cleanness pedal.

I'll experiment with voltage sag but I don't expect to add that as a feature, you really don't get good results by starving op amps or 386s, plus I'm really not shooting for noise/oscillations.

I'll experiment with higher voltage power supplies too, up to 18VDC.

Now, Pete, you've set me thinking! I had been feeling that the Elements needed some more fun, some trick up its sleeve for coolness or weirdness or whatever...

I really dig the idea of using a BBD in the circuit for some extra zazz. I love the idea of using it as a thickener, definitely going to experimenting with that! What about being able to modulate it too though so you could do vibrato with it? You could hold down the momentary switch and vibrato your fuzz, make your leads wiggle? That BBD could add a synthy option to the circuit with the thickening/doubling and maybe some vibrato... I think that could be a pretty fun extra feature!

Your idea doesn't even need an oscillator though, does it Pete? Cool idea, I'm excited to try that out on the breadboard!

[Scruffie]

Your idea doesn't even need an oscillator though, does it Pete? Cool idea, I'm excited to try that out on the breadboard!

Nope it doesn't, I e-mailed you with how i'd do it, a 4047 Clock with the 4049 Buffer with the proper filtering should be all that's needed, obviously for the vibrato it would require it though but that all depends on how complex you mind it becoming, if you're going for vibrato, why not chorus too! Get those proper 80s tones going on... I think i'd choose chorus over vibrato in fact but both can come hand in hand.

Oh and this could be extra fun if in stereo, split between two different amps for different times you'd get some really good tones going on and harmonic differences due to the seperate times...

[Ryan]

Your idea doesn't even need an oscillator though, does it Pete? Cool idea, I'm excited to try that out on the breadboard!

Nope it doesn't, I e-mailed you with how i'd do it, a 4047 Clock with the 4049 Buffer with the proper filtering should be all that's needed, obviously for the vibrato it would require it though but that all depends on how complex you mind it becoming, if you're going for vibrato, why not chorus too! Get those proper 80s tones going on... I think i'd choose chorus over vibrato in fact but both can come hand in hand.

Oh and this could be extra fun if in stereo, split between two different amps for different times you'd get some really good tones going on and harmonic differences due to the seperate times...

Haha yeah, I think we just wandered right into the office of Creeping Featurism... I wasn't thinking the Elements would be a stereo chorus pedal too! That thickener idea is calling me though, let's make the Elements thicker!

[hazelwould]

Your idea doesn't even need an oscillator though, does it Pete? Cool idea, I'm excited to try that out on the breadboard!

Nope it doesn't, I e-mailed you with how i'd do it, a 4047 Clock with the 4049 Buffer with the proper filtering should be all that's needed, obviously for the vibrato it would require it though but that all depends on how complex you mind it becoming, if you're going for vibrato, why not chorus too! Get those proper 80s tones going on... I think i'd choose chorus over vibrato in fact but both can come hand in hand.

Oh and this could be extra fun if in stereo, split between two different amps for different times you'd get some really good tones going on and harmonic differences due to the seperate times...

Haha yeah, I think we just wandered right into the office of Creeping Featurism... I wasn't thinking the Elements would be a stereo chorus pedal too! That thickener idea is calling me though, let's make the Elements thicker!

My head is about to
EXPLODE!
Seriously.

[Ryan]

What about some kind of really long sustain option...

[Companda]

What about some kind of really long sustain option...

Yes please.