brickwall limiting in a pedal?

[dubkitty]

long story short: i need absolute brickwall limiting for my loops. as those of you who loop will know, as layers buid up the overall volume level tends to increase, and i want a stop point. is there a pedal that can totally contain that kind of level creep? to save time, the Boss LM-2 doesn’t do it well at all; i currently have a Keeley Bassist Limiting Amplifier which was credited with brickwall ability (compared to their regular compressor) but doesn’t do it even with the ratio maxed. if nothing else works i’ll try the Rane compressor in my Rack of Ancient Curiosities, which definitely will work, but i’d prefer something that fits on the looping board and runs on 9V.

[Pepe]

to save time, the Boss LM-2 doesn’t do it well at all

[dub]

I'm far from an expert on compression, but I've been playing around with some on my noise setup. I run my mix through an FMR RNC. The super nice mode seems to utilise multiple compressors stage and works really well to limit everything without pumping madly; it's also stereo. Similarly I wonder if combining two compressors like one set very gently with longer time, and then into a high ratio compressor with a shorter attack and decay would give you a lot of control over the volume without too much pumping up and down. Maybe try combining the Keeley with another compressor in front? or check out the something like the Cali76 Stacked? Might get noisey. I'm prone to stupid maximalist solutions like mounting three mooer yellow compressors under the board, one for each chain going into the mixer. lol.

I also wonder if you would have better results with an 1176 style fet compressor which have a set internal limit, and an attack speed basically a thousand times faster than the Keeley, which will be far better at taming a signal.
I'm thinking of trying out the Warm Audio version of the Cali76 compact deluxe get my Mick Gordon on.

[shikawkee]

The Endorphines comp has a limiter in it. Works and sounds great. Very musical. I also think MWFX also used to make a limiter pedal?

An 1176 full-on is limiting, though not brick wall.

[alexsga]

to save time, the Boss LM-2 doesn’t do it well at all

yeah....i had an LM-2 years ago and....it limited pretty good!

have you tried one, dub?

[dubkitty]

that was the first thing i tried. i figured "well, it says "limiter" right on the can..."

[Pepe]

Then I'm really curious what could help you there. The LM-2 can shovel like a Caterpillar.

[alexsga]

ya you gotta try one again dub, take the plunge!

https://www.guitarcenter.com/product-de ... BEwb2DcblW

[dubkitty]

i still have mine. i have a metric fuckton of pedals that tried and failed to stick to one or another of the boards, literally four shoeboxes full...later this year i'm going to get a postal scale and figure out how to sell and ship stuff. there's literally $2000 worth of stuff sitting here that'll probably never get used again.

[le lambin]

This conversation makes me wonder if brick wall limiting is the solution. I’ve only ever seen it used practically in a recording situation, to hard limit the very loudest parts of peaks, usually in tandem with another compressor, and live to prevent feedback from blowing up the PA. In both cases, only the tiniest bit of signal ever gets to the point where the limiter kicks in. When you say you want to keep your loops the same volume as you overdub, I feel like you would need to set the threshold so low that it would start to sound overcompressed very quickly.

There’s also the perceived increase in volume as you layer more overdubs vs. the actual increase in volume- loops sound louder when there is more information going on, even if it’s not actually that much louder, you know what I mean?

I don’t know- I’m just thinking out loud here. I feel like maybe there is a better solution than limiting for what you want- I just don’t know what that is. Maybe clipping? But then you’d have to live with an overall dirty-ish sound. Maybe there’s some super intelligent multi band compressor:limiter that analyzes your levels at each frequency and selectively smooths out levels- sounds like a recording plug in more than a pedal though.

[coupleonapkins]

I was gonna chime in about the EHX Platform (only becuz it's stereo & plentiful & an OK prix), but looking back I saw it fell off yr compressor shootout last year. Bigger question: how much are you throwing into that signal that you need a brickwall!?!? I'd say if you're using more than two independent loopers (god, threet?), maybe look at consolidating into a 2-for-1 like the Pigtronix Infinity or whathaveyou, at least for the sake of taming the outgoing signal. Only mentioning the Pig since Owen Pallett the looping king refined his touring rig for guitar & violin fer 2024, but I dunno what else is on his rig besides that, two H9's, a dod 3-way switcher, and a Zoia, but he also used to juggle a synth & a laptop along with most of that setup (and if he was bricking anything, it must've been racked).

Or you could just go full Jon Brion & have 1 DL4 per separate instrument chain/amp on stage & call it a day

Counteroffer: play very very quietly

[dubkitty]

there's usually only one looper going at the same time, though there are some times i overlap/crossfade. maybe i'm approaching compression wrong. my strategy has always been to set ratio to infinite and set the threshold so the light pings when i hit a loud chord. maybe i need more threshold and less ratio?

i've avoided multi-looper units for the one good reason, that if the thing dies i have no loopers at all whereas if one of the three loopers goes i still have two working and thus can still do the overlap thing. in general i try to stick with single-function boxes and lots of 'em.

[Blackened Soul]

Maybe the MXR M87 Bass Compressor?
Not sure though as I haven’t used one.
my fave doesn’t fit you specs: size, powering price? Which is a maxon rtc600 (I own 2) https://reverb.com/p/maxon-rtc600-real- ... gJoCPD_BwE the one I want to try but is too $$$ for me is the Origin Effects CB compressor https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... gJnmvD_BwE

[dubkitty]

i did a comparison test and the LM-2 is much better than the Keeley. i wish it had a peak light like the Keeley does, though. i'll see how well i think it works. i have my rack up and running so if all else fails there's the MC22 which limits extremely well though i'd prefer not to add another heavy item to the system. it also strikes me that i could try to find clean settings on my EHX Black Finger, though it's noted for its coloration of the sound. i'm curious about the Maxon, but i'm not in a position to buy pedals on speculation they'll work. maybe later on this year if i still feel like i need something different.

[alexsga]

The LM-2 can shovel like a Caterpillar.

glad you are giving the LM-2 another try dub