Matamps for the rest of us

[le lambin]

Listen-

I like clean sounds. I like Matamps. I like the Matamp clean sound, but I’ve only ever played one a long time ago, and I’m not even sure of the model I played. I’ve never owned one, and I thought maybe it would be cool to get one.

So I go on YouTube, and I watch the videos, and go to the Matamp site, and I’m getting a lot of opinions from the doom guys. For good reason, I know. But I am not doom guy.

I’m looking at the lower wattage offerings- the series 3000 seems pretty cool. After spending a few hours researching, I don’t even really know what I’m looking at in terms of actual differences between the models, aside from wattage. Here’s what I want to know:

-what are the differences between regular and green versions of Matamps?
-I know models like the GT120 are loud- but something like the series 3000 thats 30 watts, is this a reasonable 30 watts? UNreasonable 30 watts? Wimpy 30 watts?
-there’s a lot of superstition about putting a master volume on these things- but why?
-any experience using Matamps for music other than doom that you’d like to share
-anything Matamp related honestly I just wanna talk about em

[Blackened Soul]

I don’t have a lot of matamp knowledge but.. I think I’ve seen one in a store one time..
Green is a color of the tolex, just like orange… in fact orange originally was made by then an offshoot from matamp… the green thing with doom is because of the band sleep… I think the master volume thing is like anything else.. some people like how things were exactly like they were in the 60s.. I personally don’t like the idea of a guitar amp that one intends on running dirty without a master volume…

[goroth]

Calling Coldbright... someone wants to talk matamps.

[MaxMaps]

I mean if you like the sound you should probably just snag one.

Also curious about this thread as Matamps are unobtainum levels of expensive - but pretty!

[le lambin]

I mean if you like the sound you should probably just snag one.

I’m with you on this- it will be snagged. I just don’t know the differences between them, and it’s not like any shop is going to have Matamp land for me to check out. It’s hard to just say fuck it I’m gonna get model x when it’s so expensive and shipping from the UK dontcha know.

[crochambeau]

-there’s a lot of superstition about putting a master volume on these things- but why?

It's a tube amps in general sort of thing, and like everything else, it can be filed away in a different strokes for different folks region of human curiosities.

In a tube amp of respectable power without master volume you're going to pick up non-linearity/distortion at several points, and since these are cascading into one another the result is different than a single stage being blown out (or a fuzz pedal). We've got the preamp squishing a little into the phase inverter, which drives output tubes into a hot region which simultaneously pulls harder on the power supply (which is going to affect everything) and sets up the electromagnetic conditions of the output transformer in a "more work being done" way which can introduce saturation of the transformer which will affect the frequency response characteristics of the output iron, and finally all of that is culminating in a stronger signal to push the poor paper cones of your speakers into a frenzy, which can include deformation of the cone.

Quite a mouthful, but the point I'm driving at is that these are all rather subtle effects taken on their own, and it is the cascading of these relatively minor distortions that produce a characteristic tone or voice attributed to whatever classic circuit we happen to be talking about.

Enter the master volume. Master volume serves (at least) two purposes. Primarily it controls the output level of the amplifier. This will obviously impact the latter half of conditions in the paragraph-like run-on sentence above. But secondly, we are quick to learn that cranking the input volume/gain results in distortion that is controllable without bringing everything up to shaking the glass in the window pane volumes.

But we can just crank the master volume all the way up and everything will do what it did before, right? Well, that depends. See, with MASTER VOLUME came the mindset that we can push the front end of the amp into as much distortion as we need - and front ends of tube amps began taking that into account at the design stage. This results in a different behaviour between the old non-master and new amplifiers.

At least, sometimes. I'm generalizing here - but it has absolutely resulted in strongly held opinions, bordering at times upon the superstition you mention.

[coldbrightsunlight]

Calling Coldbright... someone wants to talk matamps.

I don't actually know a ton about the models and stuff. I just know every time I hear one played live it's great, but I've never played one myself. I plan on going to the factory to try them at some vague time in the future because it's not actually super far away when I get a cab from their, because the cabs are cool and pretty reasonably priced.

I can't confirm or deny but I do often wonder if people use them for doom because people use them for doom and secretly you can use anything loud for doom. But I (hope) imagine that they're great in general. Again, can only go off word of mouth, and what I've heard at gigs and on albums. Lots of stuff sounds good if you're good at the geetar and good at tweaking gear

[the_bright_undead]

I do often wonder if people use them for doom because people use them for doom and secretly you can use anything loud for doom

I mean, if you can use a Hiwatt, couldn't you also use a Jazz Chorus???
jk

didn't Peter Green play a Matamp?

I know the connection between Orange and Matamp, but am not familiar with where the amp design started....anyone know what model these were initially based off of?

[D.o.S.]

Listen-

I like clean sounds. I like Matamps. I like the Matamp clean sound, but I’ve only ever played one a long time ago, and I’m not even sure of the model I played. I’ve never owned one, and I thought maybe it would be cool to get one.

So I go on YouTube, and I watch the videos, and go to the Matamp site, and I’m getting a lot of opinions from the doom guys. For good reason, I know. But I am not doom guy.

I’m looking at the lower wattage offerings- the series 3000 seems pretty cool. After spending a few hours researching, I don’t even really know what I’m looking at in terms of actual differences between the models, aside from wattage. Here’s what I want to know:

-what are the differences between regular and green versions of Matamps?
-I know models like the GT120 are loud- but something like the series 3000 thats 30 watts, is this a reasonable 30 watts? UNreasonable 30 watts? Wimpy 30 watts?
-there’s a lot of superstition about putting a master volume on these things- but why?
-any experience using Matamps for music other than doom that you’d like to share
-anything Matamp related honestly I just wanna talk about em

YAY good thread.

Green Matamps are [Peter] Green Matamps. It's tolex and faceplates - a rebranding of the GT120 from the early 90's.

-Master volumes are bad because some people think preamp distortion doesn't sound as good as power amp distortion. [those some people are right, by the way, but generally speaking you will never be in a real situation where you can get to those volumes with a 120 watt amp. If you can do this regularly, through big speakers, I am jealous of you.]

- Matamp usually rates their amps with 'RMS clean power' - which means that the 30 watts will be closer to UNreasonable than reasonable on your scale - it's 30 watts of clean RMS, rather than 30 watts after the tone is overdriven.

-The classic OrMat amp (this is the GT120 and friends) is great for all kinds of music. The reason people use 'em for doom is the same reason people use old oranges and old Sunns and old tube amps [and old solid-state amps] in general: because they are loud, sound good loud, and used to be cheap. But all those amps were used for 'not doom' for the first however many decades you want to count doom not existing as a fashion statement expressed with gear in 1968, unless your definition of doom is just very (very) loud 70's rock (which is reasonable).

[le lambin]

-there’s a lot of superstition about putting a master volume on these things- but why?

It's a tube amps in general sort of thing, and like everything else, it can be filed away in a different strokes for different folks region of human curiosities.

Ok that’s good to know- I don’t have the ears or experience to really say that a non master volume version of such and such amp is better sounding/feeling than a master volume version in general- and I like master volumes, they’re useful. Also thanks for the post- I liked reading your explanation of the internal signal chain of an amp.

Calling Coldbright... someone wants to talk matamps.

I can't confirm or deny but I do often wonder if people use them for doom because people use them for doom and secretly you can use anything loud for doom.

This definitely adds to the confusion- there’s a strong sense that you have to use a GT120 because that’s the real Matamp sound, or the coveted sound or whatever. It’s stupid but it does make me second guess myself- if I’m only getting one Matamp, don’t I want the one that everyone says is the best? Of course I shouldn’t listen to stuff like that- but I do sometimes.

- Matamp usually rates their amps with 'RMS clean power' - which means that the 30 watts will be closer to UNreasonable than reasonable on your scale - it's 30 watts of clean RMS, rather than 30 watts after the tone is overdriven.

Thank you! You make some good points- and I wasn’t clear on what RMS clean power really means.


It is kind of confusing the Green versions of the regular Matamps are the same circuits, just different aesthetics. I see the green ones and immediately think oh, that’s the heavier version. They’re even separated on the Matamp site from the regular models.

[John Matrix]

I can't confirm or deny but I do often wonder if people use them for doom because people use them for doom and secretly you can use anything loud for doom.

I think this is correct. On line gear culture, "does it doom" influencers, and plain old consumerism have fed into a whole market of people who want to build huge doom rigs but don't have any riffs. Real talk, anything loud enough to play a show will work with with the right pedal in my opinion. It's like these people forgot that bass players exist or something.

Another factor is that there are actually a lot of doom sub genres with a variety of tonal approaches and most of the Matamp/Model T hoarding crowd are really just focused on one specific sound. Either that or they are just obsessed with copping the exact sound from a record they like or something. Which, yeah...that's fun, no hate...but it's not that interesting and I can't imagine throwing that much money around for that activity.

[coldbrightsunlight]

Entirely agree with that.

And yet, also sometimes find myself sucked into the "gotta have XYZ" pit of lies, even though I know it's dumb

[moose23]

Green Matamps are not Peter Green related. Possibly Dave Green related as he used to build for Matamp but it's really just the colour.

[D.o.S.]

Green Matamps are not Peter Green related. Possibly Dave Green related as he used to build for Matamp but it's really just the colour.

From the horse's mouth:

In 1991 Matamp was taken over by Jeff Lewis. Jeff has strived to maintain the heritage of Matamp, to continue to work to the same ethics as Mat and to constantly provide the highest level of service and customer support.

The decision to relaunch the GT120 was made but a new name was needed. After a discussion between Jeff and his partner Liz, the name Green Matamp was suggested in honour of Peter Green. Green Amps were born in 1992.

https://www.matamp.co.uk/about-matamp/?v=79cba1185463

But yeah, it's just an homage and tolex - although Peter Green did use a Series 2000 with fleetwood mac back in the day.

[coldbrightsunlight]

Recently bought a used matamp cab for a very reasonable price. It's definitely high quality stuff!