"The Pedal Movie" Discussion Thread

[Seance]

Does the internet bestow power?

Yes.

I don't know. It bestows power on those who have harvested everyone's info and attention and imagination.
Otherwise the power is "virtual". It only exists if you believe it does (while devouring time and electricity).

[D.o.S.]

Punching down is bullying. Punching up isn’t.

Guy with the personality of a frozen haddock on a good day wants to be the lord high genius of pedal building by making himself a social media star to advertise his very boring pedal brand that is jobbed out to much better builders. I’m not impressed. And he keeps making it about himself by making himself the brand. Guess what, negative feelings on both commingle any time I see him at the top of my YouTube feed. If you make yourself such a needy wannabe public figure, you’re going to inspire a range of reactions.

[friendship]

We should have never told the normies about effects pedals.

[K2000]

I haven’t seen it yet but good documentaries have a definite point of view and focus. A broad overview is usually not a good documentary (it can be informative for some uninitiated people, and still not be a good documentary). “Pedals” is such a broad topic that I suspect there’s not enough of a focus. You simply cannot include everything that can possibly be said, or your documentary will be 17 days long. So it becomes a question of focus: what gets included and is it organized in an interesting and effective way. I’m going to guess the Pedal Movie might have been more suited to be a series of YouTube videos that is a long term, ongoing project.

I thought the Fuzz documentary was pretty terrible for these reasons, except as a way to give some exposure to some of the builders. But it was a mess and didn’t say much of anything interesting about the topic. Same with the Crybaby documentary which at least was mercifully short , if I recall. “Isn’t this topic cool/interesting” is not really a good thesis, it needs to be more specific and focused than that. Which means that in a good documentary a lot of stuff will get left out. But you’ll get real insight into what was included, that might even transcend the specific topic. Reverb, as a merchant, is probably incapable of doing this.

I agree the Rush documentary was really good (and I’m not a big fan but I liked them a lot more after seeing it) while the Z Top one was not good, probably because nobody in the ZZ Top one said anything revealing or negative. Whereas the Rush one was full of vulnerabilities and faults (they were teenage nerds, Neil Peart hated meeting new people, they were on the verge of collapse before 2112, etc etc). While at least 2 of the guys in ZZ Top had bad drug problems and they glossed right over it. It revealed nothing about the band as 3 dimensional people. Now I’m curious to see the Alice Cooper one, because I totally loved Alice Cooper in the early 70s. And I already know the origin story and I think the details from that time are really interesting.

[retinal orbita]

Now I’m curious to see the Alice Cooper one, because I totally loved Alice Cooper in the early 70s. And I already know the origin story and I think the details from that time are really interesting.

When you see it you’ll say “wow, that guy, whatever his name is from ILF, he seems like a really great person for suggesting I watch this Alice Cooper documentary because I loved it so much”

I can feel it! I want scrambled eggs, bacon, sausage, beans, toast, potatoes and coffee so bad. My wife doesn’t care for a full English. And restaurants have been closed for years. When will I get to eat this again? I’m never going to make all that at home for myself.

[jirodreamsofdank]

I can't believe this is a movie they want money to see. There are about a million hours of Youtube (some high quality productions by Reverb itself) content doing the exact same (boring) thing and I don't have to look at the melted wax statue that is the JHS douchebag unless I want to.

[lordgalvar]

50 or so minutes in. Been having it on during chores between 4 and 5 am.

Sorry if any of this has been covered. Haven’t looked at the thread in a while.

Thoughts so far:
-They couldn't mention Fumio Mieda by name? Dude is pretty important.

-Josh Scott built a false narrative of the delay. He claims that the Japanese (again, no names) invented the BBD, included it on the Jazz Chorus and that was a revolution in the late 1970s! Like it's bad editing or just plain wrong? BBD was invented in the late 1960s by people at Philips in the Netherlands. CCD was 1970/1 by Americans. Reticon chips, which were used first in flangers, chorus, and delays, were an American company with investors from Intel and Fairchild. Reticon made both CCD and BBD for everyone (Roland, Boss, DOD, EHX, PAIA, etc). Panasonic/Masusita were around, but the chips came later and were refinements (Panasonic also helped refine the CCD into digital cameras). They even show pedals with Reticon chips but imply that they used Panasonic MN style. I don't think they need to go into the details, but at least verify claims made by the "experts" as best as you can. 5 minutes on freaking Google.

-No mention of the early DIY world (PAIA, Electronotes, etc).

-Transistor, transistor, transistor. Then BBD. But no mention of other technological advances (like miniaturization of EQ systems, vactrols (well, Beigel did), op amps)? Seemed like a good time when talking how MXR got things smaller.

-They kind of acted like Beigel invented the phase shift. Then kind of acted like MXR did. Then showed a picture of an earlier one. Just weird editing and word choices?

-The Japanese influence has been very much downplayed to this point in the movie...but I guess they are waiting for Boss/the 1980s. But, even after Shin-Ei, Ace Tone/Roland, Korg, etc were pretty active. Even companies like Coron were producing stuff. At least mention the builds from Japan a bit more?

-Electromechanical is written. No mention of the Oil Can Delay or Tel-Rey outside of Steve Vai mentioning that Zappa took his Morley Fuzz Wah.

-No mention given to Moog, Buchla/SF Tape Center, EDP/WASP/CMOS stuff, Bebe & Lois Baron or other early electronic music pioneers? No real connection to military/post-WWII training in electronics helping spread knowledge of electronics (outside of scant mention with Mayer and Cornish). No mention of Harald Bode at all. Stockhausen? Cage? Anybody outside of guitar players? Couldn't talk to Oberhiem? He built the ring modulator into pedal for United States of America in the 1960s. Need to better tie to the studio/synth world because (and I think Josh Scott kind of said it) the movie acts like pedals and the rest of music technology go into separate vacuums after the Marty Robbins records. It's the kind of backstory that could have given some actual meaning to this movie. They may tie it together, but I don't know?

-Only archive footage of Mike Mathews? But none of Roger Mayer? Billy Corgan footage is actually from a Reverb ad for the Big Muff reissue I am pretty sure.

-No mention of movie soundtracks really. Fuzzrite in Westerns. Etc.

-They could've talked to some other people. Not just Vai and the same old

-No mention of DOD, Tychobrae, Univox (or rebranding in general), etc.

-Seems very USA/UK-centric. Like anyone not from there is not given a name. It's like "Japanese Creator." Feels weirdly nationalistic/exclusionary.

-Josh Scott claims Mike Mathews is an excellent businessman because he went through two bankruptcies and moved to a place with cheaper labor and available factories? Sure....

-Mike Mathews has been given all the credit so far for EHX by the commentators. In his archival footage, Mike always says "We" when talking about achievements. No one else acknowledges it. They should have really looked at Mathews as a great finder of talent and pushing what the company can do. He didn't design hardly anything, but always had good people around. Glad they did get into the more unique stuff they accomplished.

-Probably to keep the mojo/mystique alive: there is only one mention that a lot of these circuits are adaptations from data sheets or existing things.

Best parts so far:
-Beigel and the early Guild stuff. Cool seeing the Synth.

-Cool seeing some the session/studio guys.

-The talking steel guitar stuff is cool, even if widely known. Glad it was mentioned. But it was also another missed opportunity to actually look back at the history briefly. It's an old effect.

Personal to me:
-One picture of a ring mod. One.

It's an un-researched mess of movie so far. Doesn't add anything to the history or understanding of the industry or how a bunch of different people came together to change music.

Sad, angry guy commentary mode complete for today haha.

It's the first movie I've watched in over a year. I'm sorry I still have over an hour. haha. Hopefully some of my concerns get addressed later in the movie?

[dubkitty]

sounds about what i expected: a totally distorted and inaccurate invented narrative centered around American cis-het males who got rich off of their (or more often other peoples') work. does Devi even get a mention?

it doesn't surprise me one bit that JHS dude is so prominent in this. he's someone who created a false identity as a builder when all he was doing was copying talented people, and then seized a role as effects expert just because he could now afford to buy a bunch of old effects and thus thinks he knows anything about them other than received knowledge. the very definition of a paper tiger.

[qersty]

We should make our own pedal movie! With ring mods and hookers!

[Gone Fission]

sounds about what i expected: a totally distorted and inaccurate invented narrative centered around American cis-het males who got rich off of their (or more often other peoples') work. does Devi even get a mention?

it doesn't surprise me one bit that JHS dude is so prominent in this. he's someone who created a false identity as a builder when all he was doing was copying talented people, and then seized a role as effects expert just because he could now afford to buy a bunch of old effects and thus thinks he knows anything about them other than received knowledge. the very definition of a paper tiger.

It’s the definition of a few things.

The erasure of women in the music instrument manufacturing industry has been a thing for a while which is perverse because the instruments wouldn’t be here without women. Consider the lionization of Harry Joyce for supervising women who performed the mil spec wiring on old Hiwatt amps. And women were doing the hand wiring for most amp makers. A couple of pickup winders of the golden age accidentally got a bit of celebrity because of gear nerds noticing their initials. But a guy does a few of these tasks nights and weekends copying the work of those who came before (or adding dubious improvements) and he’s a guru. So you take that dynamic and it’s kind of obvious what was going to happen to non-cis women. The he-man women haters’ club must remain a sealed box.

And that’s not even getting into the general invisibility of industrial workers.

[lordgalvar]

sounds about what i expected: a totally distorted and inaccurate invented narrative centered around American cis-het males who got rich off of their (or more often other peoples') work. does Devi even get a mention?

it doesn't surprise me one bit that JHS dude is so prominent in this. he's someone who created a false identity as a builder when all he was doing was copying talented people, and then seized a role as effects expert just because he could now afford to buy a bunch of old effects and thus thinks he knows anything about them other than received knowledge. the very definition of a paper tiger.

It’s the definition of a few things.

The erasure of women in the music instrument manufacturing industry has been a thing for a while which is perverse because the instruments wouldn’t be here without women. Consider the lionization of Harry Joyce for supervising women who performed the mil spec wiring on old Hiwatt amps. And women were doing the hand wiring for most amp makers. A couple of pickup winders of the golden age accidentally got a bit of celebrity because of gear nerds noticing their initials. But a guy does a few of these tasks nights and weekends copying the work of those who came before (or adding dubious improvements) and he’s a guru. So you take that dynamic and it’s kind of obvious what was going to happen to non-cis women. The he-man women haters’ club must remain a sealed box.

And that’s not even getting into the general invisibility of industrial workers.

I actually think that would be an excellent start for a music industry documentary.

Typed too damn much, put it in a box:

NSFW: show

The movie shows a few photos of women on the production line for some un-named company but it doesn't talk about it? Just kind of talks about building business. There was a running-out-space detachment there...like basement builds, we are big! Little mentions, but it should have been more explored. They had space to really talk about the industry (if that was the direction they picked, more on this later) with all the B-roll they used. A lot of wasted space.

Devi was mentioned by Loe Sounds (IIRC, ran out of space on my note card, ha!). She was looking for other women in the industry. This was at 2:08 in a 2:22 minute movie. 4-5ish minutes on how there are some positive changes with diversity and equality in the industry in a still largely white dude industry (which the movie spends most of the time focusing on). Some great comments, and even a kind of dig at the film makers by Fabi Reyna, in this section, but it felt very tacked on. Especially since Fulltone (pedals, not dude) still had more screen time and praise even after being cut from the movie (which is good. Who cares what Mike Fuller has to say anyway? Another dude caught in his own "bubble").

There was a brief good section where Fran talked about doing business wrong and learning the hard way. But it was too short kind of and should've been supplemented by other companies' experiences (there were some mentions, but it was separated by quite of space). Fran should've got more screen time in general. She's been around in electronics forever and been an influence in the industry nearly 30 years. But can't cut from JHS I guess.

The weird thing about Loe is they didn't mention what makes her builds interesting at all (recycled/repurposed enclosures).

Anyway, there was really no discussion about contract building, behind-the-scenes designers, lineages (outside of Line 6/Strymon/Meris), and the actual industry side. There could've been some really great exploring there and tie influences to each other. Like EHX's ties to Fran, Beigel, and a few newer boutique builders. Or DOD/Digitech and their in house kind of promotions (speaking of which, no Tom! DOD doesn't get much mention in the movie outside of a brief thing on Whammy and JHS trashing the analog reverb*). They talked to Malekko (that's a large part of their business). Cusack and Wren&Cuff had photos at the end. Good place to look and explore the diversity and who actually builds the pedals. I know Wren&Cuff is interesting in that they train and use home builders to fill orders...which is cool because it gets skills and tools to people that need jobs with less investment in a factory. Cusack has a supply house that supports DIY in the same complex.

DIY did get discussed a bit and they had Anderton. Mentioned RG Keen, Orman, Usenet, etc. Could've driven the later narrative more.

They missed an important part of AnalogMan's contribution to me: he was an early distro for other builders like Lastgasp, Keeley, etc.

More on Devi's influence: there was some slight talk of the community of builders in the movie. But it came off as white guy's club. That was something I always felt was important about Devi: she influenced and had a community for a lot of people at one time. Heck, years ago she used to talk to me via email just about music (before ILF existed). Nearly any company here or in the shark tank could've illustrated it better. Like everybody pitching in to cover a NAMM booth (Dwarfcraft, SS/BS, Industrial Electric, and Rainger one year I was there...that's three countries represented in one booth). Or Fuzzhugger being a distro for other companies and keeping this forum alive. So many different ways if that was the direction they had chosen (they didn't choose a clear hypothesis, theme, idea for the movie outside of pedals and the builders are cool I think). And even going so far to get into the licensing of designs and how that Devi's designs are built in Wales and US by two different companies (it's a unique thing to explore).

Wasn't Devi a part of Malekko becoming a business (I remember her being one the first pedal demoers for that Barker Assmaster. Like one company helping another was pretty cool to me back then)?

Finally brought up op amps. But, that's about all the technological advances they covered until DSP.

The movie goes into how DSP is the future. Does not talk about digitally controlled analog or how things like Teensy or Arduino have made digital designs more accessible to people. This is one of the few sections that got a heading. But they quickly moved away from it. Does not once mention the Spin FV-1 or how the creator was a former Alesis guy that worked on synths and split off to build his own designs for audio processing (and has an office pretty close to Fulltone...they could've driven over there). Like there was lead-ins about technological influences and then it would go away to some dude playing guitar or like "crazy sounds!" Just felt scatterbrained (like this review? ha!). Could've talked about Frogg and all that.

No mention of Lastgasp (over 20 years as a company). Katanasound got a photo in the end. No mention of Schumann. Or Zoom! Or Ring Modulation! Or modulation really that much at all; most of the pedals considered innovative Were delays or dirt. They could’ve mention music scenes that kept pedals around during the rack era (even the second rack/multifx era of the late 90 early 2k), like Noisecore, Noise in general (another way to integrate Japan),

Klon, Tube Screamer, Nirvana, and other important stuff got about as much screen time as the solo to a Blur song. I like Blur ok, but was any of their solos that important like Nirvana to the pedal industry (and I'm not a Nirvana fan, but they did help bring pedals to more people and are generally important)? Rat and 250 were like flashed on screen.

JHS's backstory felt like it got more screen time than the section diversity section. Is JHS really that big of a player? Honestly, he got more time than Earthquaker (I feel like they are bigger), DOD, and even Boss. However, he is less in the movie than I initially thought he would be. Maybe even more time on his backstory and praise for his company than talk of tube screamer?

I'm glad Andy got some credit (and more screen time than knobs). Weird thing is I think they used some of his narration from Reverb videos over B-roll in the movie to fill space. And his narration kind of started like it was a different movie and then it went away again? I've seen this in a few documentaries where they kind of make two movies and sloppy-slice them into one?

There were weird Reverb infographic timelines that would pop up randomly for no reason at all. They added nothing other than "Hey, RAT and 250 are 4 years apart!"

More weird editing: They do a rare section header for PORTLAND OREGON! Then mention something like it's full of proud, hard working people! Then cut to how Earthquaker is awesome because they do it all local. Akron doesn't get a header? NYC didn't, I don't think. Why Portland (I know lots of companies are there, but it doesn't mention that at all)?

Pedals on screen and pedals being talked about were sometimes from widely different eras. Like "The Japanese took over the industry in the late 1970s!" and show a Maxon Wah-Fuzz or something...like maybe technically from the same decade, but kind of different eras?

Finally mentions that pedals just ain't for guitar players late in the movie. They could've talked about a ton of pedal stuff not on guitar (they mentioned Higher Ground, but nothing about Daft Punk, Acid House (I know people in the UK that would used pedal phasers because they didn't have traditional filters), etc). Mostly guitars which is kind of sad.

Still very little talk outside of USA builders. Japan has had a huge scene for a while. There is some UK stuff in the movie. But they could've looked into how this all became a global economy and talked to some great personalities from all over like Sehat, Lightning Wave, GFI, etc (too many to list...we live in a time of the internet!).

On that note, no real talk about how things have developed in other countries during the boutique boom. I understand there isn't time to cover everything though (I just think things that are actually interesting and could've been explored could've replaced screen time from Vai or Daredevil or b-roll).

DBA had some of the best comments...but they've probably said them in several movies they've been in? haha.

Tech 21 guy had some good comments. Didn't know much about him. Didn't realize they've been around that long.

The biggest problem is the film makers didn't know what they wanted to say or how to focus on one topic. Like if the topic is "how pedals became a global economy," cool, do it. Or "From basement to Broadway...how business evolved in the pedal world." Or Pedals make these sounds/here is how sound has evolved. Or Technology. Or let's meet the builders. Or anything.

With no focus, there is really only general information and no new insight is seen into the industry at all. The editing is disjointed and not concise, especially for a 2hr 22min movie.

I don't even feel like it succeeded as an advertisement for Reverb. Like, if it was, and they followed though, I think it would've been a better movie.

*: Again, JHS is wrong. Roland had an BBD "Hall" reverb in an amp top box. DOD had the first pedal. I wouldn't draw this distinction but, due to bad editing I guess, they introduced reverb by showing studio effect and making an implication on screen that reverb was terrible until the RV-2.

More JHS is wrong: He claims that the 2007 crash lead to people not having enough money to invest in guitars and amps rose to people buying more pedals. That is slightly true. That was the case in the 1990s, early 2k too. They wouldn't have marketed "Grunge," "Death Metal," etc to people if they could afford to have and play a freaking full stack with a custom Jackson. haha. Most people I know had a Zoom 505 for a headphone amp and a crate amp or something. Want to not sound like a crate amp? $30 DOD!

Probably a mess. Have to stop talking. Will edit a bit later.

Lots of typos. Fixed some. Sorry.

[lordgalvar]

Sorry for the long posts. Going to go through the thread when the site is faster:

I know the movie didn’t focus on technology as much as they kind of tried, but no mention of circuit bending, 555, or pt2399 being a part of the boutique boom. Kind of important if they really wanted to build why builders got to where they are now. They did talk about modders like keeley a bit, but not really pushing cheap things past it’s limits that normal mass-market companies wouldn’t. If the movie had focused on modern builders, they really could have gotten into why the industry has been a place with some accessibility.

[lordgalvar]

I heard Alchemy Audio or somebody trashed Sehat in that movie? Like criticizing the guy’s wiring inside pedals or something?

I think that is just some Instagram drama. I watched the movie and remember seeing 2 people from Alchemy for a second but don't remember what they said probably because I was half asleep. I think you referring to this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CM7JUEfMzVJ/

I don't know how you can crap on another builder and then sell something that looks like this, haha:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHvPbXVn5GI/

The movie was super mediocre as one might expect. Like a better production value fuzz the sound that revolutionized the world even though I think that one was more enjoyable. Or maybe it would have been way better if they didn't feature the JHS dude so much. That really sucked.

Thanks for that. Pretty lame to include them in the movie if that’s their attitude if one of their vague themes about the modern industry is one of community (even though it’s pretty half-assed).

Have to check out Fuzz.

feel it all ended up to much of a "surface-y" thing rather than a deeper documentary feel.
. . .
More like a catalogue of gear avaiable to buy
. . .
The feminist/female builder part was way too short too, just ended up feeling like a "conscious branding" thing in an otherwise very male dominated film, obviously.
. . .
Would've prefered a series consisting of shorter episodes with each builder or for instace focusing on each particular effect type.

Yea, it kind of needed more structure or focus. Agree for the most part. I don’t think it was as gear showcase-y as it could’ve been and, if they went that way, and focused less on the industry, it would’ve been a better movie.

Glad I didn’t pay for it. I like the eqd/dba pedal I got though. I guess I kind of did pay for it? Only movie I have ever paid for intentionally to stream was that bill and ted that came out last year.

[Chankgeez]

No, long posts are fine. Nice in-depth critique.

None of that surprises me at all. There some sort of bias in every "documentary". No way around that.

This's just how they saw things. (Plus, the movie's too short to include the full picture. )

[lordgalvar]

Yea, it really should’ve been three or four smaller movies to really give credit and build a more complete story. It is totally impossible to cover everything though.

One more weird thing I just thought of: Susumu Tamura was not mentioned at all. Finnegan was. Both are important? Ikutaro Kakehashi was the only Japanese name mentioned in the movie that I can remember and he was only part of a story about how the company got the name Boss.

Absolutely no mention of European effects outside of UK. Could’ve mentioned that Russia and Eastern Europe were building them too? I mean there were some builders/pedals on screen like JPTR, Gamechanger, etc, but very much acted like all innovation was tied US/UK outside of Boss (and even Boss was diminished I felt).