long chain, tone suck, insertion loss

[Errant Tiger]

(the jokes just write themselves)

I'm running my JMJM into a chain consisting of about 24 pedals. When I made the jump from a 14 pedal board I started to notice some signal loss, and I'd like to counter that without going to a shorter signal chain. Right now my solution is to combine my shitty Amazon Basics compressor with the MXR EQ, but it's still not as clean a tone as I'd like. I have swapped out my 10-12 foot Pighog guitar cable with a crummy patch cable and that made no difference. I would be very grateful for any suggestions as to how to present or minimize what I think is called insertion loss.

[fldrvr]

Maybe try removing one pedal at a time from the chain to see if that's the culprit?

Or maybe a signal loop switcher so that your signal isn't always running through all 24.

I've usually heard that buffers can help, but you've got plenty of pedal that should have buffers

[Errant Tiger]

Maybe try removing one pedal at a time from the chain to see if that's the culprit?

Or maybe a signal loop switcher so that your signal isn't always running through all 24.

I've usually heard that buffers can help, but you've got plenty of pedal that should have buffers

I don’t *think* it’s a single pedal, though I haven’t tested, tbh. On my smaller board, I had an Echorec and the preamp was definitely messing with the sound. Most of these I’ve used in smaller configurations, I think, with no loss. I should really try each one, though.

I don’t think a loop switcher is practical for me, as a) that kind of organization gives me fits, and b) I don’t think I have enough standard combinations to make it viable. I mix shit up a lot.

Is it possible to have too many buffers?

[lordgalvar]

Could be load on the power supply (not mA but capacitance) or something power supply related (switching supplies can give fits in certain situations). Could be a noisy buffer somewhere (or stacking of positive gain).

Try splitting in halves and testing for noise (and unplugging pedals for power) then narrow it down.

[coupleonapkins]

How about a......klon?

[Errant Tiger]

Could be load on the power supply (not mA but capacitance) or something power supply related (switching supplies can give fits in certain situations). Could be a noisy buffer somewhere (or stacking of positive gain).

Try splitting in halves and testing for noise (and unplugging pedals for power) then narrow it down.

Hmmm… I’m fueling it with a CS-12 with one daisy chain, and the M7, Tera, and Immerse all have their own power supplies… I should try that though, thanks!

[MechaGodzilla]

boonar fucks and the preamp/buffer in that (in non-true bypass mode) sounds good

nothing more to add! best of luck

[backwardsvoyager]

Are you sure the Behringer multifx has nothing to do with it? Every one of those I've tried has had an awful effect on the clean signal.

For what it's worth, when I had similar issues years ago it was just a matter of testing all the patch cables, swapping the guitar/amp cables to higher quality stuff that wasn't any longer than it needed to be, and making sure there were decent buffered peds near the start and end of the chain.

[Errant Tiger]

Are you sure the Behringer multifx has nothing to do with it? Every one of those I've tried has had an awful effect on the clean signal.

For what it's worth, when I had similar issues years ago it was just a matter of testing all the patch cables, swapping the guitar/amp cables to higher quality stuff that wasn't any longer than it needed to be, and making sure there were decent buffered peds near the start and end of the chain.

I haven’t tried that one yet! I would be mostly stoked if it were the case, but also bummed because it comes in incredibly handy in that particular location.

[goroth]

I’ve had some cheaper pedals that sound ass when bypassed. If you’ve got a good buffer going in and a good buffer going out then that could be the reason. Identify any pedals that have a buffered bypass and test getting rid of them.

Good buffers generally mean you can have any old cables - the capacitance in them won’t load your pickups.

[Pepe]

Is it possible to have too many buffers?

Sure! Ten years ago I did a test with the BOSS LS-2 Line Selector and a bunch of other BOSS compact pedals. If I recall correctly I put five pedals in channel A of the LS-2 and ten pedals in channel B (or maybe four and eight - it's ten years ago). These were BOSS pedals that are known for a good bypass sound (i.e. the BF-2 has really bad bypass, but still better than any Arion pedal that I have had in the past).

This was the result: Bypass test
(LS-2 in bypass | LS-2, channel A | LS-2, channel B | LS-2 in bypass)

Notice how the volume comes back at 0:24 when I switch back from channel B with lots of bypassed pedals to the LS-2's bypass with no other pedal before or after it.

After having made this test I ditched the idea of a permanent pedalboard with 20+ pedals. Ever since then I just assemble my effect chain that I need for the current situation. I'm happy with that solution.

[qersty]

What about a stratoblaster or something up-front? any clean boost, really. Just something to bump the gain like a dB or two

[Errant Tiger]

What about a stratoblaster or something up-front? any clean boost, really. Just something to bump the gain like a dB or two

Yeah, that’s kind of what I’ve been leaning towards. Actually I’ve been toying with the idea of having the rhythm channel in my Mascis converted to a clean boost, if I can find the right one and if that’s even feasible. Was also thinking about a compressor like the CS-1X - not to get all squishy but to just sort of… better everything.

[Errant Tiger]

Is it possible to have too many buffers?

Sure! Ten years ago I did a test with the BOSS LS-2 Line Selector and a bunch of other BOSS compact pedals. If I recall correctly I put five pedals in channel A of the LS-2 and ten pedals in channel B (or maybe four and eight - it's ten years ago). These were BOSS pedals that are known for a good bypass sound (i.e. the BF-2 has really bad bypass, but still better than any Arion pedal that I have had in the past).

This was the result: Bypass test
(LS-2 in bypass | LS-2, channel A | LS-2, channel B | LS-2 in bypass)

Notice how the volume comes back at 0:24 when I switch back from channel B with lots of bypassed pedals to the LS-2's bypass with no other pedal before or after it.

After having made this test I ditched the idea of a permanent pedalboard with 20+ pedals. Ever since then I just assemble my effect chain that I need for the current situation. I'm happy with that solution.

That’s a compelling argument, for sure. My brain definitely works better when I have everything in front of me - plus I do sort of soundscapey stuff, so the more options the better - and so the idea of limiting myself to “what I need for the current situation” gives my ADHD brain fits - as does having SO MANY things to try and not knowing where to start.

Fuck.

[qersty]

Have you tried just using the eq btw? Sometimes i feel like compresors can muddy-up already muddy things.

I put some thinking into what clean boosts might work and I concluded a super hardon (clone) might be a safe bet. It has pretty high input impedance so it will absolutely brighten things up