First synth?! Psyched & scared, help me out...

[frigid midget]

I'm probably overthinking this, it's just that I can't justify blowing a ton of money on something I'm not too familiar with and may regret real fast...

When I was young (old as fuck now) I messed with synths for a bit, just to add bleeps and bloops to my guitar improvs. Didn't have a clue what I was doing, I just tweaked the controls until I came across a cool sound. I played around with Logic and Reason too, but that's ages ago, and I barely scratched the surface.

Anyway, for my ambienty film score type stuff, using just my guitar is getting a little one dimensional. It'd be awesome if I were able to work with synths, mangled samples, glitchy beats,...I know that's a craft of its own, I'm fully aware I'm not gonna become a synthesist over night.
But I like the idea of doing at least *something* musical using headphones. Cause that's my big issue when playing guitar, I don't have a man cace or quiet studio or anything, and I don't live in the woods on my own...:/

Anyway, I'm looking for the most fun, most inspiring way to dab into the realm of samplers ands synths. I'm not sure the software path would be the best option for that, but I've got this brand new macbook air...So something like Ableton Live or Logic would cost me a lot less than any piece of hardware that covers the same ground, and eventually I'd need a decent DAW anyway. I'm not opposed to spending a litte more on a fancy groove box type all-in-one thing if it's got a solid chance of getting me hooked. I've got a feeling a piece of hardware, with all its limitations, would feel more like an instrument, something that's more inviting to grab and jam with than my laptop.

Everyone and their moms seems to have an OP-1. Seems a bit pricey for what it is, compared to the competition
In any case, I'm leaning more towards a hardware sampler/synth that covers a lot of ground. What's out there that's both powerful/versatile but not so complex/intimidating that it sucks all the fun out of it? Minilogue? Or just a midi keyboard and a swiss army knife like the Digitakt or MPC One?

Thanks a ton.

[D.o.S.]

The thing about samplers is that at a certain level it's all about workflow and how much you like it.

Something like a Minilogue is a pretty different beast. I am not sure I would go with that if my goal was "Mangled Samples and glitchy beats".

If you can try a Digitakt, you should. Also obviously I love the Model Samples and for grab and jam it's impossible to beat (IMO), but it really depends on if you like Elektron stuff or not.

[coldbrightsunlight]

So, if you want simple and fun and gets you going, what about Volca?

More advanced but still cheap, the Elektron Model:Samples and Cycles are cool grooveboxes that are quite powerful for the money - provided you're happy with the inherent limitations.

If you want to get into samplers, Digitakt and MPC are both great choices, these are of course a lot more involved but you can get cool sounds going (I think) very easily and have fun without getting too deep into it.

If you want a key synth style experience, a sampler is not necessarily going to be what you want in terms of parameters and stuff. YES you can play a sampler with a nice synth sound using a midi keyboard, but it might not be as good as a dedicated synth for doing that. All depends what's most important to you.

Minilogue and samplers are of course very different from one another so, depends what you want to do

I would say both are great choices if they're the thing you want.



EDIT: DoS beat me to the punch while I was typing but I totally agree with everything he said.

[coldbrightsunlight]

So, if you want simple and fun and gets you going, what about Volca?

More advanced but still cheap, the Elektron Model:Samples and Cycles are cool grooveboxes that are quite powerful for the money - provided you're happy with the inherent limitations.

If you want to get into samplers, Digitakt and MPC are both great choices, these are of course a lot more involved but you can get cool sounds going (I think) very easily and have fun without getting too deep into it.

If you want a key synth style experience, a sampler is not necessarily going to be what you want in terms of parameters and stuff. YES you can play a sampler with a nice synth sound using a midi keyboard, but it might not be as good as a dedicated synth for doing that. All depends what's most important to you.

Minilogue and samplers are of course very different from one another so, depends what you want to do

I would say both are great choices if they're the thing you want.

EDIT: DoS beat me to the punch while I was typing but I totally agree with everything he said.

And as you kind of noted yourself, Ableton or Logic plus a MIDI controller would be a lot more powerful than any hardware gear in the same price bracket, if you like that workflow.

[fcknoise]

Novation circuit is I think what you’d like. It’s cheap, everyone seems to love it, you can load your samples and do both drums and synths on a nice easy interface. It seems ideal for getting into synths and stuff when you don’t really know what you want.

Model:cycles seems sick. Pick up and play style and has both drum and “chord” capabilities. I think there basically is no learning curve and you get nice sounds with the best sequencer. Run it through fuzz and fx to get mangled beats I guess.

A sampler is something else entirely. The model samples can’t do sampling into it, as the digitakt can. Check out the circuit and cycles and see if it’s anything for you

[frigid midget]

Thanks.

I'd favor hardware over the somewhat annoying work flowof of Logic or Ableton on my small laptop, but I can't afford to ignore the option that gives be the best bang for my buck, by far. Btw, between those two, Logic seems to be the better value. It just costs less and I've a had a bit bit of experience with an earlier version of Logic. And I'm familiar with GarageBand, for whatever's that's worth.

So it seems like it'd make a ton of sense to go with a both. Elektroin Model:Samples AND Logic + midi controller. Should give me plenty so start with, I would think it'd take a good while before I run into the boundaries of what that combo could do for me. And all in all, the total cost would be really reasonable.

If I'd give those antoher look...The MPC One and Digitakt cost about the same. So in a nut shell, what are the main differences? I guess they have their own pros & cons, with their own different approach and UI that depend on personal preference...

On the one hand I'm hoping I'll be hooked, that I'll be exploring new ways of making great sounds and all that...On the other hand, I know for a fact that would open up a whole new rabbit hole... Constantly obessing over new plugins and synths, collecting gear until either the bank or my wife asks me to move out

[D.o.S.]

Models: Samples + Logic w/controller is a perfect setup, tbh.

The only thing is whether you care about dragging and dropping samples onto the Samples via USB, rather than recording straight in.

[frigid midget]

Models: Samples + Logic w/controller is a perfect setup, tbh.

The only thing is whether you care about dragging and dropping samples onto the Samples via USB, rather than recording straight in.

Either would be fine I guess. I suppose it'd depend where/how I get my samples, but still...drag&drop shouldn't be an issue I think.

I'm having second thoughts though. The Model:Cycles does seem sick too (thnks for the tip fcknoise). Wouldn't that make more sense if I use it with Logic? It's a newer than the Sample, and it's supposedly a bit better build. No idea what the actual practical differences would be...but based on the clips I checked, as far as sounds go, I'd say I'm fine with either FM vs Samples.

And than there's also the Novation Circuit everyone seems to be raving about. Yeah well, got it narrowed down to just 3 options, that's not much worse than if I were on my second day of fuzz shopping

[fcknoise]

Models: Samples + Logic w/controller is a perfect setup, tbh.

The only thing is whether you care about dragging and dropping samples onto the Samples via USB, rather than recording straight in.

Either would be fine I guess. I suppose it'd depend where/how I get my samples, but still...drag&drop shouldn't be an issue I think.

I'm having second thoughts though. The Model:Cycles does seem sick too (thnks for the tip fcknoise). Wouldn't that make more sense if I use it with Logic? It's a newer than the Sample, and it's supposedly a bit better build. No idea what the actual practical differences would be...but based on the clips I checked, as far as sounds go, I'd say I'm fine with either FM vs Samples.

And than there's also the Novation Circuit everyone seems to be raving about. Yeah well, got it narrowed down to just 3 options, that's not much worse than if I were on my second day of fuzz shopping

Cycles and samples are different instruments, their build should both be fine (as in, excellent). They do totally different things though. Cycles is an FM based drum machine that you can also use as a chord generator and a tone generator. I've seen folks do drone stuff with them also.

Samples is a sample playback machine. It plays samples and lends itself to rhythmic playing. I believe you can also throw some tones/waveforms in there and play it chromatically.

Neither make more sense than the other in terms of going with a daw. They play sounds.

Circuit is such a good entry piece it seems. It is also a DAW controller so. Theres that.

OOooh, also I think the Polyend Tracker looks super dope and that might be something for you also

[D.o.S.]

If you want something that you can do more sound design on (aka tuning the synth to make noises), you might want to go with the Cycles. If you want the noises good to go out of the box (and are happy adding other noises to the box), pick the Samples. You can do a fair amount of tweaking to the samples, but you can't create from scratch the same way.

The real draw to either is the sequencer, which is the same on both. It's brill. Haven't played the Circuit so I can't comment on it.


edit: yeah fcknoise is right on.

[echorec]

If you want to focus on cinematic soundscapes & ambient works, you can start doing that on a computer for $0.00 today. If you want to do experimental glitched stuff, there are free plugins that go much further than any pedal.

What do you want to do with samples? Are you leaning on them for beats, or do you just want to use them as a shortcut, until you can craft your own sounds? There are a lot of free sample libraries as well, but depending on the instruments you want, the price and choices will vary.

As far as being an intimidated noob, there are multiple software synths with randomization controls, so you can just click 'randomize' until you get a desirable sound. When it's 1am, and I don't want to tweak knobs, but I don't want to go to bed either, that's a handy feature. Lion costs $40 during sale events. If it was hardware, it'd cost $3,000+.

A lot of people talk about the tactile experience of rotating knobs and sliders, but I don't get it. If the goal is auditory and psychological fulfillment, the geographic location of your fingers shouldn't matter.

[frigid midget]

If you want something that you can do more sound design on (aka tuning the synth to make noises), you might want to go with the Cycles. If you want the noises good to go out of the box (and are happy adding other noises to the box), pick the Samples. You can do a fair amount of tweaking to the samples, but you can't create from scratch the same way.

The real draw to either is the sequencer, which is the same on both. It's brill. Haven't played the Circuit so I can't comment on it.


edit: yeah fcknoise is right on.

Thanks for clearing that up. I kinda want both though :/
But I have to pick one, so it comes down to which job I'd rather do with hardware, and which one I wouldn't mind doing in Logic.

[Bartimaeus]

getting a daw will teach you a lot about synths and samplers, so getting ableton (my recommendation) or logic first will only make it easier to take advantage of any hardware you buy down the road, and it'll give you a better idea of what you'll want the hardware for. maybe you'll decide you like sampling in more recent daws, and end up getting a synth for analog sounds. or maybe you'll hate the sampler workflow but find that vst synths get the job done, so you end up getting a groovebox. but getting the hardware first will make it harder to know what's missing, and what makes it unique.

[doommeow]

Finding the right workflow is def the key. Play with as much free/cheap software as you can until you find something that seems comfortable and logical and that you want to translate into hardware.

As much as I love the idea of samples and glitching and beat making/mangling, I also find that I hate (or at least can't grok) the workflow of 99% of that kind of gear. Not easily, not repeatably and intuitively. Then I tried VCVrack and happily got sucked down the eurorack rabbit hole - coming from pedals, feedback loops, randomness, it immediately clicked.

(still wish I could wrangle beats and tracks like bjork tho)

[spacelordmother]

If you want something that you can do more sound design on (aka tuning the synth to make noises), you might want to go with the Cycles. If you want the noises good to go out of the box (and are happy adding other noises to the box), pick the Samples. You can do a fair amount of tweaking to the samples, but you can't create from scratch the same way.

The real draw to either is the sequencer, which is the same on both. It's brill. Haven't played the Circuit so I can't comment on it.


edit: yeah fcknoise is right on.

Thanks for clearing that up. I kinda want both though :/
But I have to pick one, so it comes down to which job I'd rather do with hardware, and which one I wouldn't mind doing in Logic.

The thing about the Circuit is that on the hardware you're limited to those 8 macro knobs for synth editing. The engine is amazing and deep, but you can't get it it without the editor. Also: it does do samples, but editing is limited to 4 knobs: pitch, decay, distortion, filter. It can be very fun to use and its very immediate, but it definitely has its limitations.

Also re: Model:Samples vs Model:Cycles -- you could also say Digitakt vs Digitone. No samples in the Digitone, but the FM engine can do great drums. Sorry to complicate your life.