Need helps with covering a song (pedal content inside)

[Jwar]

Hey all! Sooo, I doing something super lame and cover the song Hurt. It's not lame, I'm just kidding. My cousin put me up to the challenge. Well, I learned the song and am now trying to fine tune a few things with effects. I'm basing it loosely on the original Reznor version and would like to get some sounds he had going.


So, in hurt there's this white noise kind of going in the background (most of The Downward Spiral was like that). Anyway, I've been playing around with a few things there. The Ventris was able to do some really, really cool stuff but it over takes the signal even if I split it and bi-amp (have the Ventris going to it's own amp). Even if I turn the fucking mix all the way down. So, not going to work. I used Dr. Scientist Atmosphere. Almost a similar issue but I can't seem to achieve the layered effect I desire. I could use a mixer or my Klein Bottle, but sometimes that takes away from the quality of the sound. So, I need a white noise generator of some sort that I can send off in the background. Self generating white noise would be ideal. I'm not a modular guy or I would have already had this solved. LOL. There probably is a pedal and I'm just not thinking of it, but I'd love suggestions.


I'm also looking for a way to make my semi hollow sound a bit more hollow if that makes sense. I've been messing around with all sorts of variations of dirt pedals, preamps, eq's....etc. It's just not right. The song has this hollow tone to it. I want to some what emulate that. Any suggestions there?

Next, I want something that ought to be seemingly easy, but I can't seem to reproduce it. Keep in mind here that I understand Trent used all kinds of shit to make his sounds. HOWEVER, I have been able to get close enough with things for my liking in the past. I'm struggling with this song for some reason though. I need a chorus that warbles but is controllable or tunable. Like a slight detune that can pan and warble but comes back like a gate closing if I want. So, a gated chorus? Does that existed?

One last things. In the second chorus section of the song there's some noises that are like drums but they aren't drums. It may even be Trent using a keyboard and I'm just tone deaf. Any help identifying a way to do that, also I would love you.


I may be way over thinking things but you know what. Fuck it. Let's have some fun. Anyone want to help me out here?

The song is super easy to learn btw. It took me literally one day to find the notes and then about a week to play through, and now I'm trying to get comfortable with it and hopefully sing. It's a tad challenging however to do that with this one. Not sure why, just is. So, I thought about mixing the two versions. Part Cash, part Reznor. Any thoughts there? Or tips? I'm tuning DADGAD and I'm not changing that ever again. It makes things sooo much easier. The chord changes are doable but I am still struggling. It's obnoxious. I like the verse part better in the Cash version anyway.


There's my brain this morning. Errr afternoon. Shit it's afternoon already. hah

[lordgalvar]

Am/FM radio? Shortwave radio? Noise machine for sleeping? YouTube noise videos for sleeping?

Paradox Futura?

Mess with the eq on the amp and use a few different mics to get the hollow sound. Maybe even run a peizo or mic off the guitar directly and layer in different takes and channels to get a more full hollow sound. Re-amp with distortion maybe too so it sits under but you've still got the wood attack.

[Jwar]

Am/FM radio? Shortwave radio? Noise machine for sleeping? YouTube noise videos for sleeping?

Paradox Futura?

Mess with the eq on the amp and use a few different mics to get the hollow sound. Maybe even run a peizo or mic off the guitar directly and layer in different takes and channels to get a more full hollow sound. Re-amp with distortion maybe too so it sits under but you've still got the wood attack.

These are all awesome ideas! I know Trent did a lot of unique things like you're talking about with the mics and eqs.

I never thought about micing one of my amps. I need to bring my third one up and try that. I have a Copperphone too, so that may nail it. Man. See this is why I posted this!


The Paradox Futura, I'll go watch some demos.

I like the idea of using non pedals based items to make the white noise. That's out of the box thinking. Sir, I need your help to diversify my mind I think.

[lordgalvar]

You could also create chorusing sounds by changing the speed of playback in a DAW. Chop up the wav file of the guitar and change the speed each one plays back, offset them slightly (like a few Ms) sometimes too (you won't need to change the speed always either), and then put those into different tracks with different mixes and get a whole bunch of different chorus/flange/delay sounds in stereo images.

Use a delay pedal on the shortest times with an exp pedal or something to change the filtering. Or even just tweak the knob on playback. Like zero-50ms range.

Futura just has an envelope control. I guess it just depends if you want to do it live or not. I've used the Koma bd-101 with an external LFO to make some flange tones. It has the trem/gate to shut it down too.

Second verse drum sounds: sounds like filter noise with some aliasing and a tremolo effect being slowly faded in. Could be a synth, but it doesn't have to be. The high end res sound comes off as a bit crusher or an 8bit sample (like ensoniq mirage) of noise. He just applied a tremolo or repeating vca and swells it either at the console or with an envelope. Could also just be a short noise sample too. Lost of ways to do it.

[Jwar]

Awesome, awesome, awesome! I listened to the song again and I noted something about the guitar, which I'm not entirely sure it is a guitar...it sounds almost as if it is an acoustic being mic'd but I'm being throw off by the found. Like theres some subtle flange or something there I can't identify. I thought it was chorus but maybe I'm wrong. The way the notes are played sound very mechanical to me and I know that Trent does that shit in DAW's and such. I do want to be able to do this live as well.


I'm not sure if I told anyone my idea or not, but I'm writing songs and have been since this whole Pandemic thing started, and am planning on doing an EP vinyl pressing for my kids. One for each of them. That way, if they ever want to hear dad after I'm gone, they can.


This song is painful for me, but I love it.

[moid]

If you have a copy of Audacity (free audio editor) you can open it, go to Generate>Noise and then choose white, pink or brownian noise and how long you want it to last and it's done! Takes 30 seconds. Might lack the analogue charm of recording an amp turned up too loud though?

[Jwar]

So, I wasn't going to go exactly with what Trent did, but I do want to reproduce certain aspects of it and do it in a live setting so I can replicate it. I think I have the guitar sound that I like here down. Got pedals selected that are meeting the sound I have in my head (for the most part). I did learn that it was in fact played on guitar but the guitar was layered multiple times. So that's why it has that kind of trembling effect to it. It almost sounds like panning to me, almost, but a very subtle and quick pan. To my ears, a chorus gets pretty close to this especially when I'm bi-amping and only running the chorus through one cab (and I run a reverb through the other). I'm still not 100% happy, but I've got it most of the way there. Now it's just adjusting gain levels and such.

For the second part, I really like how Trent goes from guitar to keys, but I'm not sure how to naturally achieve that. I'm sure that's why Cash played guitar the whole way through as well. So, I most likely will ignore that part. I do want that bom bom bom bom bom bom sound when he's breaking into the second chorus though. That's what it sounds like in my head BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM but with a kind of almost drum, almost brass...I don't know what the noise is. I want something like that. I tried to emulate it with my Mattoverse Analog Kick drum, not even close but it's the wrong pitch. Threw a pitch shifter on it, no dice. So, I'm beginning to wonder if it was an effect he had on the keys he was using during the song.

So, in a sense, I'm done but trying to improve a few ways as well. I may end up using a looper as well for part of it. I haven't decided yet.

Thanks for all the help!!!

[JonnyAngle]

use the filter on the bitquest to thin out that hollow body!

[Jwar]

use the filter on the bitquest to thin out that hollow body!

That's a good idea to try! Thanks dude!

[D.o.S.]

So, I wasn't going to go exactly with what Trent did, but I do want to reproduce certain aspects of it and do it in a live setting so I can replicate it. I think I have the guitar sound that I like here down. Got pedals selected that are meeting the sound I have in my head (for the most part). I did learn that it was in fact played on guitar but the guitar was layered multiple times. So that's why it has that kind of trembling effect to it. It almost sounds like panning to me, almost, but a very subtle and quick pan. To my ears, a chorus gets pretty close to this especially when I'm bi-amping and only running the chorus through one cab (and I run a reverb through the other). I'm still not 100% happy, but I've got it most of the way there. Now it's just adjusting gain levels and such.

For the second part, I really like how Trent goes from guitar to keys, but I'm not sure how to naturally achieve that. I'm sure that's why Cash played guitar the whole way through as well. So, I most likely will ignore that part. I do want that bom bom bom bom bom bom sound when he's breaking into the second chorus though. That's what it sounds like in my head BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM BOM but with a kind of almost drum, almost brass...I don't know what the noise is. I want something like that. I tried to emulate it with my Mattoverse Analog Kick drum, not even close but it's the wrong pitch. Threw a pitch shifter on it, no dice. So, I'm beginning to wonder if it was an effect he had on the keys he was using during the song.

So, in a sense, I'm done but trying to improve a few ways as well. I may end up using a looper as well for part of it. I haven't decided yet.

Thanks for all the help!!!

Yeah the "noise" is a really mangled version of the guitar to my ears (there's some light ring mod or whatever later in the song). The Max MSP plugin Noyzckipper can get pretty close to this: basically it's built around having a ton of specific frequency noise and a moving Q/Resonance, which is why it sounds like it's "trembling", because it's resonating more at some frequencies and others.

I threw together something to explain (Not with hurt but another acoustic guitar so you can get the idea). Same deal: two tracks, one with the effect on, one clean. It's mixed a little bit higher than Hurt because I had like 5 minutes and you need to be able to hear what I'm talking about
https://soundcloud.com/escapecraft/thing-for-jwar

Low mids are where the box lives, IME. Right around 250hzish