Controversial Opinions

[dubkitty]

given the weirdness of my tastes, it's pretty unlikely that i'll *ever* find people with similar tastes. i said ages ago that i was certainly the only Deadhead in America who loved the Dead and the Sex Pistols in equal measure, and i'm likely the only person in town--other than my coworker with the 3000 CDs--who's even heard of Swell Maps.

[Sonaboy]

Frasier is the best sitcom ever.

Why is that?

[Dandolin]

Swell Maps.

Epic Soundtracks

[Chankgeez]

The most epic soundtrack:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oorr0ycI04o[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oorr0ycI04o

[MechaGodzilla]

Frasier is the best sitcom ever.

Why is that?

I love frasier but so many episodes are “someone thinks frasier/Niles is gay! Hahahaaa”

Seinfeld, on the other hand, only has one episode like that

[Dapper Bandit]

Talking about music is more fun than talking about gear.

NOT CONTROVERSIAL.

Frasier is the best sitcom ever.

Why is that?

I don't think there has been a single sitcom that has assembled such a quality cast from main characters down to recurring cameos (Daphne's family for example) consistently through it's entire run. Obviously Seinfeld is a contender for the title but Jerry can't act and there are times when it shows. The writing is beyond fantastic, the cultural jokes about Frasier and Niles being snobs work on the level that they are funny whether you get the reference or not. And not in a Big Bang Theory "The tall science man said a big word and then rolled his eyes, hilarious!" kind of way. The balance of funny and serious was done extremely well (the unrequited love bit, ugh) and even though the characters were all unlikeable when examined individually, when combined the characters were believable and likeable in a very real way.

And that's without getting into how Maris perfected how an off-screen character works in comedy.

That said, the last couple of seasons weren't great because one of the great tensions in the show had been released and nothing could really replace it but I also understand how at that point in the show it was kind of unavoidable.

I love frasier but so many episodes are “someone thinks frasier/Niles is gay! Hahahaaa”

Seinfeld, on the other hand, only has one episode like that

This is true but Frasier and Niles are prissy men. This plays against the cultural norms for masculinity in the West so while it is kind of unoriginal or at least a joke they returned to quite often it worked as a commentary on class (working joe isn't impressed by the opera aficionado) and highlighted that while they often considered themselves to be a cut above ordinary people, ordinary people didn't have that same impression.

Or I could have given too much thought to a load of gay jokes.

[Dandolin]

The most epic soundtrack:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oorr0ycI04o[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oorr0ycI04o

no argument Toshirô

[Sonaboy]

I don't think there has been a single sitcom that has assembled such a quality cast from main characters down to recurring cameos (Daphne's family for example) consistently through it's entire run.

I can think of a few, and the material didn't rely on the dual riffs of effeminate sons vs. working class stiffs. However - they wrung a LOT of good material out of that over more seasons than they should have, so credit to them.

But honestly - Frasier was just a more close-up focus of the personality dilemmas inherited from the clearly superior Cheers. James Brooks knew he had a good thing going, so of course he exploited it. But Frasier as a situation and as an exploration of character didn't exist without Cheers. And Cheers had strengths that outweighed Frasier in nearly every way, cast being the most obvious.
Hell, even the Maris gag was an also-ran. It was just a blue blood, fragile version of Vera, the dissatisfied but steadfast invisible wife.

Anyway - I'd say sitcoms that are competitive in the quality cast & strength of material:
Mary Tyler Moore Show
News Radio
MASH
Taxi

[dubkitty]

Dick van Dyke Show
Soap

[Sonaboy]

Dick van Dyke Show
Ehhhhh

WKRP in Cincinnati

and I hesitate to call it an "actual" sitcom, even though it kind of is, but with a much longer story arc, but damn:
Arrested Development

[Dapper Bandit]

I don't think there has been a single sitcom that has assembled such a quality cast from main characters down to recurring cameos (Daphne's family for example) consistently through it's entire run.

I can think of a few, and the material didn't rely on the dual riffs of effeminate sons vs. working class stiffs. However - they wrung a LOT of good material out of that over more seasons than they should have, so credit to them.

But honestly - Frasier was just a more close-up focus of the personality dilemmas inherited from the clearly superior Cheers. James Brooks knew he had a good thing going, so of course he exploited it. But Frasier as a situation and as an exploration of character didn't exist without Cheers. And Cheers had strengths that outweighed Frasier in nearly every way, cast being the most obvious.
Hell, even the Maris gag was an also-ran. It was just a blue blood, fragile version of Vera, the dissatisfied but steadfast invisible wife.

Anyway - I'd say sitcoms that are competitive in the quality cast & strength of material:
Mary Tyler Moore Show
News Radio
MASH
Taxi

See, the sons weren't effeminate. Frasier got through quite a lot of women and Niles spent the whole time longing for another woman, they simply don't conform to traditional American male standards. The theme seemed to be one of alienation from their fellow man, for the most part.

I rlove Cheers but Frasier just resonated with me a bit more, which would almost certainly be the defining factor in my opinion, although I'm not sure I can agree with Frasier being worse than Cheers because Frasier was in Cheers first.


MASH & Taxi

[BetterOffShred]

Going through women doesn't mean you're not effeminate, I think the crane boys were straight up prissy nerds. And that's cool. I liked that show, and Roz was hilarious.

[dubkitty]

Going through women doesn't mean you're not effeminate

confirmed. i'm girlish enough that people used to mistake me for a woman all the time when i was buying coffee outside the train station with my bike/long hair/tights, and i've certainly had my fair share of boinking.

[dubkitty]

(really, it was just because i have a cute booty)

[MechaGodzilla]

I'm not sure I can agree with Frasier being worse than Cheers because Frasier was in Cheers first.

heck yeah, that's like saying "Rogue One can't be the best Star Wars coz Empire came first" or something