Octave & Subsynth (Fake Bass)

[dallasisacowboy]

I'm currently the only guitarist in my band (using a baritone currently tuned to a variation on F standard) and I've been using an octave pedal to get a fake bass sound for years at this point. Having said that, I was wondering if using a Meatbox or Meatbox variant could give me enough low end to forego using an octaver or if it would even be effective. Just curious to see what everyone is using to get a fake bass sound. I've had a Drop, a Pitchfork, a Ricochet (and I'm sure some others that I'm forgetting) but none of them have ever really scratched that itch. So, what would you recommend?

[whoismarykelly]

There are a handful of threads here on faking bass that are worth a read. I've been doing it for 6 years now and the best pedal I've used for sounding like a realistic bass is the TC Sub'n'up although you'll need to build a finely-tuned tone print for the purpose.

The Meatbox is still effectively an octaver and the effect can be rather subtle. Its also monophonic so if you're playing more than single notes it'll quickly become a garbled mess.

Are you using a bass amp for that side of your rig? That's the most important part. If you're faking bass you need the whole bass rig and you have to treat your signal post-split like it's an actual bass. EQ and compression make a big deal in helping that sound work.

Also, depending on the kind of music you play, a Taurus pedals type of rig is an interesting alternative. Watch videos of Brian Cook in Russian Circles to get an idea of how he plays bass on the Moog Taurus when he's playing a lead line on his actual bass.

[dallasisacowboy]

Thank you for the reply.
I will try out the TC Sub'n'up and mess with the toneprints as I have never used it before. I am using a bass amp with a 4x10 for the fake bass side of my rig. As cool as it would be to have a taurus in my rig, I'm not sure it's something I'm willing to take on price-wise. It's a super neat piece of kit though. I also have a compressor set for that side of the rig as well, I could definitely look into an EQ pedal though. Thanks again.

[lordgalvar]

USAISAMONSTER did some taurus pedals stuff too ('cept it was the drummer)

[whoismarykelly]

Thank you for the reply.
I will try out the TC Sub'n'up and mess with the toneprints as I have never used it before. I am using a bass amp with a 4x10 for the fake bass side of my rig. As cool as it would be to have a taurus in my rig, I'm not sure it's something I'm willing to take on price-wise. It's a super neat piece of kit though. I also have a compressor set for that side of the rig as well, I could definitely look into an EQ pedal though. Thanks again.

FWIW you don't need a $3,000 Moog Taurus. You can get up and running on those sounds with a Minitaur and a Keith McMillan 12 step for way less cash. Worth it to not have to deal with a bass player

[greyscales]

Meatbox is cool with a Bass VI to add some beef but I don't think it works great with guitar. The octave effect is very synthetic, which can be really cool for that effect but it's not like fake bass to me. Much better for bass guitars trying to make sub sounds.

IME a Boss OC-3 in poly mode works pretty well. You can still play some chords while the root can be sent to the bass side. It doesn't sound super authentic but OC-3s are pretty easy to come by and it doesn't require a splitter.
EHX stuff handles chords pretty well and tracks fairly quickly. Pitchfork sounds a little more hi-fi to me than a POG, but I prefered the POG in the long run for the filter built into it.

There are pros and cons to all octave pedals in the end though. Different pedals sound better to me for different types of music and playing styles.

[frodog]

Playing with a dude who often uses a baritone split to guitar and bass amps, I've heard a couple different octavers. OC-3 is a decent option, it gets pretty muddy and undefined though. EHX Octave Multiplexer is trash. Their digital ones like POG are probably better, only tried that one though. I'd definitely agree with greyscales that it depends on the type of music/player.

The best, most visceral octave pedal I've tried by far is the RMA Stone Splitter. For something readily obtainable I like Parasit Studio's many synth-octave offerings. Very happy with the Sidescroller I built, that's the one I use now. 8-Bitar is a good simple one; excited about the U-235 (currently 90% completed).

If I want to really fatten up a bass signal I use the TAFM (fuzz only, dark shape), it does an amazing job at making a monophonic synth or octave pedal more organic and megabass.

[univalve]

I use an infanem second voice and a subdecay octasynth for my bass lines. But i loop that and use a bass amp. Those two are the only bass sounds i really need: one really Punkrock'y and the other more electro deep clean bass...

[gila_crisis]

To fake a bass/subbass I use a DROP and then go into a Low Pass filter to cut all the unwanted high end.

[Dowi]

my two cents:
I've been the guitarist in a guit+drums two-piece for the last 7 years: the only thing that ever satisfied me to fulfil bass duties in all situations is the old POG with the big metallic chassis.
Fuck, that's the only pedal i won't EVER sell, it simply works great with effects of any kind: clean, overdrive, fuzz, ring mods, everything!
I've had a bunch of octavers, BOSS OC2, OC3, Foxrox OCTRON, new edition POGs (big and small), Walrus Luminary, Whammy.. none of those is barely comparable in dynamic response and harmonic richness.
If you want the "fake bass" to sound less fake and want to stay in the octaver area be sure to have it polyphonic. As far as monophonic octavers can do killer things, they never really sound properly like a real instrument 100% to me.

[manymanyhaha]

I use an infanem second voice and a subdecay octasynth for my bass lines. But i loop that and use a bass amp. Those two are the only bass sounds i really need: one really Punkrock'y and the other more electro deep clean bass...

Interested in hearing this . . .

[KingNed]

Ive been playing guitar in a bass-less band for a few years. I made a thread about a year ago on this topic, and I'm still working on it. viewtopic.php?f=149&t=58766

My conclusions so far...

A whole bass rig is pretty necessary if you're replacing a bassist. This should be a given I guess. I've also found that bigger speakers work really well. The best, most natural sound I've had, has been using cabs with 15" (or bigger) drivers.

POGs seem to have a bit of octave up/dry blend when using full octave down. May not be a massive issue, but it doesn't help if you're trying to make it as natural as possible. My favourite octaver Ive tried is a EHX Pitchfork. Great sound and tracking. A little bit of click is present on the high end, which sounds kinda weird by itself, but helps with cutting through in a mix. I've just bought a TC Sub N Up, which I'm excited to mess with (see whoismarykelly's post). On your distortion, don't have any dry blend. Sounds weird.

I just tried seperating the neck and bridge pickups, and sending the bridge to the guitar rig, and the neck to the bass. Ive found that it actually helps quite a lot with seperation and realism in the tone. I've seen a few people stick a bass pickup in there guitar to cover the low strings, but that's ugly, and not completely necessary. A bass pickup isn't going to automatically make it sound like a bass.
I've heard that active, and rail pickups, might give better balance to the sound of your bass, but I've yet to experiment with that. A lace alumitone is probably gonna be my next purchase.

EQ and compression really help. I found that adding a bit of high end after the octave helps it cut and feel less muddy, and cutting a little bit of sub before can help tracking. Compression will do the job it should do - making sure your tone is even and full.

You have to play to the sound. No low chords with close intervals, and make sure you're basing as much as you can on the low strings, as that makes sure the bass isn't going to cut in and out clumsily (unless that's what you've written it to do...)

Low tunings and thick strings really help making your bass sound thicker and more realistic. Just like the big strings on a bass are gonna help produce the sub content due to their size, thicker strings should help the bass sound more solid. Lower tunings will sound less synth like. I like C and below. D didn't sound right to me and E less so.

[rfurtkamp]

If I wanted to go that route, I'd just pull out a GR-55 or an old VG-99 fulltime.

It will do the job in spades and then some.

[whoismarykelly]

Tracking on modern polyphonic pitch shifters is better than those synth units in my experience.

[rfurtkamp]

Never had an issue with the Vguitar stuff at all, it does exactly what it says it if the thing is installed right.

And that goes both ways (I have pickups on my Jaguar and Bass VI, and both can fake each other ridiculously well)