Top Mounted Everything! And RRR v2 discussions!

[bronzetalon]

Or he could incorporate different options between the miniberator and the bigberator. Maybe go stereo with all the options minus a loop for the bigberator. And since the mini is mono add a loop for that model, if space is a issue for two more jacks on the mini maybe just a stereo jack would work like the was analogman does it for his loop on his delay. Allthough the mini might still be strapped for space even then.

[ze monsta]

Loop is a vital feature...

[johnson]

Hey Ryan,
This might be a little premature at this point, but any thoughts about the graphics that will be on the Big-berators? One vote for a Big-Skull-berator!

[Ryan]

I've definitely pondered the idea of making different options available for the bigberator but there's a few problems with that idea, for us and our situation at least...

The goal for Tanya and I is to stay really small and hands on but do it in a way that let's us be competitive and keep up with demand and not have to work 12 hours a day every day just to make 50 pedals in a month. To do that we're trying to give up some of the chores of the builds, like making pcbs... it's a chore that takes so much time and is so brain-dead that it's just held us back for a long time. The miniberators have changed that for us and it's been great and our goal is to keep on making changes in that direction.

So with the bigberator, it's going to be a really big and complicated pcb with a complicated box with lots of holes and it'll require a complicated finish with tons of control labels.. we don't want to have to do them individually, one at a time, to specific orders... that would be so slow it would be just like we were back in the old days, slaving away every day and not making any progress. So we need to order the pcbs at once, have them made for us, and do the same with the boxes. We can't do that with any changes though, it's all for one with this kind of manufacturing.. it'll cost a small fortune to do the bigberator pcbs and they'll all have to be done the same way. Same with the boxes, it's expensive arranging the drilling, powder coating, and screen printing and we have to commit to a largeish order up front in order to do this. You can't order different options though, you can just order the one way of doing it.

So ultimately I think we're all going to have to have a tribal council and decide on the final features for the bigberator... I know that's going to be basically impossible but it's just a reality, we can only do it one way and we've gotta get it right the first time. I still plan on doing an ultimate version with every feasible option and then really pondering those features to make sure they're a necessity for the big version.

I don't think I'll ever be able to add any features to the miniberator, there's just no more room inside the box...the pcb layout is completely packed and I think it would be impossible to even reroute the traces necessary for expression jacks. I like the idea of keeping the miniberator very simple too, it's very utilitarian right now and I think that works great for it.

I guess the real dilemma is just how decked out to make the bigberator.. it's going to get very pricey and complicated to build and it's hard to say that one feature is more important than another.... I don't know if stereo in and out is more or less important than expression controls or an effects loop.. I feel like those are all winners and I want the bigberator to have every feature it can. I think my goal is to include every feature we've discussed that I can but still keep the price around $350.

We haven't really pondered the finishes at all but I do think it's safe to say the bigberators will first, and maybe only, be released in the powder coated and screen printed boxes. It would just take poor Tanya forever to have to do all the text labels required for all the knobs and jacks on the bigberator... when she does the control labels she has to pick every letter individually, take them off the cut vinyl sheet from the plotter and place them down one by one on the pedal finish.. she'd be lucky to get one finish done a day and it wouldn't even be a fun day.

Whew, long read there, sorry guys! The bigberators are a really complicated subject for us... by far the biggest undertaking we'll have... undertook.

[oinkbanana]

in the name of progress

[Ryan]

Right back at you, buddy! And thanks for all the chatting about this pedal, I appreciate your input.

Thanks to all you guys for all the input in this thread, I think we've guided the RRR v2 onto a pretty cool path!

[futuresailors]

Will there be pizza at the pow-wow?

[Ryan]

I can't really imagine debating the future features of the bigberator without some pizza! Everyone who attends the RRR conference will have to bring the best local pizza they can get their hands on... and probably some sweat pants.

[backwhenIwascool]

Pizza!?.........AND sweatpants?! This is gonna be great.

[johnson]

I've definitely pondered the idea of making different options available for the bigberator but there's a few problems with that idea, for us and our situation at least...

The goal for Tanya and I is to stay really small and hands on but do it in a way that let's us be competitive and keep up with demand and not have to work 12 hours a day every day just to make 50 pedals in a month. To do that we're trying to give up some of the chores of the builds, like making pcbs... it's a chore that takes so much time and is so brain-dead that it's just held us back for a long time. The miniberators have changed that for us and it's been great and our goal is to keep on making changes in that direction.

So with the bigberator, it's going to be a really big and complicated pcb with a complicated box with lots of holes and it'll require a complicated finish with tons of control labels.. we don't want to have to do them individually, one at a time, to specific orders... that would be so slow it would be just like we were back in the old days, slaving away every day and not making any progress. So we need to order the pcbs at once, have them made for us, and do the same with the boxes. We can't do that with any changes though, it's all for one with this kind of manufacturing.. it'll cost a small fortune to do the bigberator pcbs and they'll all have to be done the same way. Same with the boxes, it's expensive arranging the drilling, powder coating, and screen printing and we have to commit to a largeish order up front in order to do this. You can't order different options though, you can just order the one way of doing it.

So ultimately I think we're all going to have to have a tribal council and decide on the final features for the bigberator... I know that's going to be basically impossible but it's just a reality, we can only do it one way and we've gotta get it right the first time. I still plan on doing an ultimate version with every feasible option and then really pondering those features to make sure they're a necessity for the big version.

I don't think I'll ever be able to add any features to the miniberator, there's just no more room inside the box...the pcb layout is completely packed and I think it would be impossible to even reroute the traces necessary for expression jacks. I like the idea of keeping the miniberator very simple too, it's very utilitarian right now and I think that works great for it.

I guess the real dilemma is just how decked out to make the bigberator.. it's going to get very pricey and complicated to build and it's hard to say that one feature is more important than another.... I don't know if stereo in and out is more or less important than expression controls or an effects loop.. I feel like those are all winners and I want the bigberator to have every feature it can. I think my goal is to include every feature we've discussed that I can but still keep the price around $350.

We haven't really pondered the finishes at all but I do think it's safe to say the bigberators will first, and maybe only, be released in the powder coated and screen printed boxes. It would just take poor Tanya forever to have to do all the text labels required for all the knobs and jacks on the bigberator... when she does the control labels she has to pick every letter individually, take them off the cut vinyl sheet from the plotter and place them down one by one on the pedal finish.. she'd be lucky to get one finish done a day and it wouldn't even be a fun day.

Whew, long read there, sorry guys! The bigberators are a really complicated subject for us... by far the biggest undertaking we'll have... undertook.

Thanks for the updates Ryan! This pedal is going to be spectacular! I can't wait

[gururyan]

What the?!?! Where have I been?!? I've been in the dark since February Ryan! I've got some backreading to do but glad the effects loop was brought up. Stereo in/out and effects loop...awesome. Not sure I would/could use the dual expression jacks but wouldn't want to keep others from having them. Off to catch up!

[Ryan]

Gururyan! What a nice surprise! Welcome to the forum, pal! *smile*

Yessir, this is a great thread to read for all the RRR news... and I'm sorry in advance that there isn't as much progress as you'd have hoped... the RRRv2 has taken a bit of a back seat to the new Tremolessence.

It's still a top priority for this year though and a significant portion of it is all designed and ready... here's a pic of the bread board with decay control, modulation, stereo paths, soft touch relay switching. I consider those things crucial, they're the must haves, and the expression control, effects loop, and buffered bypass options are still things I'm pondering... I still plan on doing two prototypes as well, a full size with everything mentioned and then a smaller size, same as the old size like your Mondrian, that won't have some things like the buffered bypass option or the effects loop. I'm still hung up on the smaller size box, I just don't love the idea of using the 1790NS...

RRRv2 bread-board

[backwhenIwascool]

naked RRR!

[gururyan]

Gururyan! What a nice surprise! Welcome to the forum, pal! *smile*

Yessir, this is a great thread to read for all the RRR news... and I'm sorry in advance that there isn't as much progress as you'd have hoped... the RRRv2 has taken a bit of a back seat to the new Tremolessence.

It's still a top priority for this year though and a significant portion of it is all designed and ready... here's a pic of the bread board with decay control, modulation, stereo paths, soft touch relay switching. I consider those things crucial, they're the must haves, and the expression control, effects loop, and buffered bypass options are still things I'm pondering... I still plan on doing two prototypes as well, a full size with everything mentioned and then a smaller size, same as the old size like your Mondrian, that won't have some things like the buffered bypass option or the effects loop. I'm still hung up on the smaller size box, I just don't love the idea of using the 1790NS...

RRRv2 bread-board.JPG

Tremolo-schwemolo, this big boy is hot. Not that I particularly like the taller boxes, but could you keep the footprint down by going up? Sandwich the boards or have them on edge? Don't forget the Vuvuzela option. When you get the size and drill marks finalized (or close to it), let me know. I want to take a stab at the DIY design option....not that I didn't love my 1st ever Mondrian, yeah that's right peeps, that was my custom request that ended up creating a Mondrian run.

[Ryan]

Tremolo-schwemolo, this big boy is hot. Not that I particularly like the taller boxes, but could you keep the footprint down by going up? Sandwich the boards or have them on edge? Don't forget the Vuvuzela option. When you get the size and drill marks finalized (or close to it), let me know. I want to take a stab at the DIY design option....not that I didn't love my 1st ever Mondrian, yeah that's right peeps, that was my custom request that ended up creating a Mondrian run.

I'm pretty sure that I've narrowed the box sizes down to the best two options, the 1590BB and 1790NS, and I don't think there's much else that could work... I can't really do double layer of boards or have them on the side, it conflicts with my build style... I do the pots and rotary switch and expression jacks mounted to the pcb but I like to hand wire the in/out/9VDC jacks.. I sort of have a specific way of how I like to build pedals that I just gotta stick with! *smile*

If you go back a bit in this thread you'll see pics of what my first two prototype boxes will look like in the 1590BB and 1790NS, I'm still planning on working around those box layouts.

I think that would be pretty cool if you did the DIY design option on your bigberator!