The controversial gear thread

[Ugly Nora]

I simultaneously feel both happiness and regret that I clicked on this thread.

[UglyCasanova]

whoa!

TL;DR anyone? please

Tldr; y u no like toan?

[actual]

You're so full of it man. You spew randomass semi-right mostly wrong "knowledge" but when asked to back up your shit, you say you're too tired.

Your pedals might have an analog dry-path, but the effect itself is digital.

We’ve gone over that, this whole digital thing is about a fully digital pedal not digital/ analog hybrid pedals that conserve your analog path

You just said that your pedals are merely digitally controlled. If that was the case, your original signal and the effected signal would be analog. This is not the case. A CBA pedal is digitally controlled, but the effect is analog. Your Empress pedals have an analog dry-path but the effect is digital.

[AlexGlassLungs]

No? As has been said, ad nauseum at this point, whether a pedal is digital or analogue has nothing to do with the bypass of the pedal, or whether it's buffered or not (let alone how).

So I will say again: you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.

And as I said these were two different things I was responding to. The only thing I said was “most digital pedals are buffered” and then I desperately stated that I can hear the difference between a buffered and non buffered pedal. Again, you misinterpreting what I’m saying.

[vallaton]

you say a LOT of things that make very little sense in a VERY condescending tone, and when corrected you just say more things. it's like trying to have a conversation with one of the MRA duders: the tide of bullshit and misinformation is so fast and vast that even you seem to forget what you wrote 2 minutes ago. it's not doing you any favors to keep at this pace. take your time and maybe like try to crystallize what you are trying to say in this thread and post it. then read what people answer and try to understand that many of them are really knowledgeable and that you might learn something. then answer them instead of making new claims. -> profit!

[goroth]

If my empress delay isn’t running from isolated power the tap stops working. Same with the phaser, the lights start to flash and it won’t stay on... I’m very familiar with how all of this works as far as operating goes. Most companies recommend isolated power over daisy chaining, you simply have more reliable operation or the y may run with cleaner headroom, for example if you have a dying battery your fuzz with be more sputtery same with power if you have cleaner more solid power that pedal will operate cleaner.

Ok... I'm sitting here with an empress tap tremolo that is daisy-chained.
It is also working correctly.
I can post a video of it functioning correctly if that will keep you happy.
What do you mean about "more reliable" operation in terms of whether an output is isolated or not?
Headroom is headroom. Either it is exists or it doesn't. There is no such thing as clean or dirty headroom. Headroom is related to the voltage gain of the signal before it distorts. This is to do with the design of the circuit and not the power supply.
A dying battery is a battery with lower voltage. Voltage is not the same as current. You can daisy-chain a thousand pedals and it won't affect the voltage in your power supply. The current will however not be adequate and your pedals won't work.
Can you define solidity in terms of power delivery?
Can you define cleanness in terms of pedal operation?
I have no idea what you mean.

I’m very familiar with how all of this works as far as operating goes.

I'm not so certain of this dude.

[comesect2.0]

[AlexGlassLungs]

You're so full of it man. You spew randomass semi-right mostly wrong "knowledge" but when asked to back up your shit, you say you're too tired.

Your pedals might have an analog dry-path, but the effect itself is digital.

We’ve gone over that, this whole digital thing is about a fully digital pedal not digital/ analog hybrid pedals that conserve your analog path

You just said that your pedals are merely digitally controlled. If that was the case, your original signal and the effected signal would be analog. This is not the case. A CBA pedal is digitally controlled, but the effect is analog. Your Empress pedals have an analog dry-path but the effect is digital.

As I said with the Joel from Chase bliss thing, I said to you the affected signal is digital but never is the analog signal manipulated. In a true digital effect there is no seperate analog path. Yeah I still need to show you his diagram and I’ll get to that but you’re not telling me anything I’m not aware of

[D.o.S.]

No? As has been said, ad nauseum at this point, whether a pedal is digital or analogue has nothing to do with the bypass of the pedal, or whether it's buffered or not (let alone how).

So I will say again: you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.

And as I said these were two different things I was responding to. The only thing I said was “most digital pedals are buffered” and then I desperately stated that I can hear the difference between a buffered and non buffered pedal. Again, you misinterpreting what I’m saying.

See below:

For anyone joining us at this point in our drivetime commute down the Highway of "digital" tone hell and crushing effects knowledge, here are some of the greatest hits:

maybe asking why you put a pedal before another one is too personal or why you don’t care if your dry signal is effected by digital, maybe some of you don’t hear that or maybe it’s that you don’t care enough to hear it and I’m not bashing that either...

I have digital pedals I play with, I’m not saying digital is bad either, for “sweet toanz” I can hear it and personally don’t like it. I don’t play it with my band or record with it, I have it for fun, digital pedals can do a lot analog can’t do.

If I were to plug a digital pedal into my rig I can 100% hear the difference in how the buffer alone effects my amp, on top of that the digital repeats and clarity of a delay for example sound too perfect, clear, and don’t have feel to them, an an analog delay has body and depth to it and has flaws that feel natural. It’s more to it than “I can hear this is digital”. There is a whole feel to the difference in the pedal.

With all the digital gear you use you won’t be feeling much of anything :-/

Hahaha but no seriously, it’s almost equivalent to blasting a ton of compression vs no compression. Something you won’t experience if you done try it

2) Your analog/digital pedal mash-ups- Something I see a lot of is the flaunting of analog or analog signal path pedals. I for one am a huge fan of these types of pedals and quality builds. For slight background on me, I was a straight signal path kinda guitar player with no pedals for a long time and always wanted a great tone from my amp and still do. I’ve always been huge on my amps and Guitar pickups so adding pedals I needed ones that conserved my tone... so for me I won’t put digital pedals on my board. I play with hand wound pickups into anpoint to point I guitar head. I have pedals with PCB and obv you need to but none of them are digital, I don’t want my analog signal path being effected.

my question is for the people spending a ton of money on their gear, who have spent thousands of dollars on your Guitar Amps pushing digital pedals into them. Why? Why would you put so much into your direct signal and distort it with digital effects? Again this isn’t me calling you out, it’s me simply asking your reasoning behind this. Also to add onto this, besides digital pedals I see a lot of “lesser quality brands” on pedalboards with really amazing pedals on them. Besides the function of what it’s doing, can you not hear the lesser quality of the product, say EHX for example... ok go!

At this point the square wave forms of digital are so small I can’t tell but I can tell how they react with my other pedals and my amp and most of all my signal

Ok so if there is no deference why did Keely make mods to the Line 6 Pedals? Why do brands like Diamond, Empress, and Chase Bliss make it so a digital path is blended into your analog path instead of just going straight into a digital circuit? You know why? Because going stight into a digital circuit and back out effects your analog signal... no one would go through the trouble of those designs if it didn’t

[goroth]

No? As has been said, ad nauseum at this point, whether a pedal is digital or analogue has nothing to do with the bypass of the pedal, or whether it's buffered or not (let alone how).

So I will say again: you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about.

And as I said these were two different things I was responding to. The only thing I said was “most digital pedals are buffered” and then I desperately stated that I can hear the difference between a buffered and non buffered pedal. Again, you misinterpreting what I’m saying.

Dude, there is literally, LITERALLY, no correlation between how a pedal manipulates the input signal, and how it is bypassed.

[lordgalvar]

I'm going to go back to the car and ring mod threads.

[D.o.S.]

And actually we haven't even gotten to this gem yet:

Also to add onto this, besides digital pedals I see a lot of “lesser quality brands” on pedalboards with really amazing pedals on them. Besides the function of what it’s doing, can you not hear the lesser quality of the product, say EHX for example... ok go!

[ProCarsteNation]

Headroom is related to the voltage gain of the signal before it distorts. This is to do with the design of the circuit and not the power supply.

would it be both for pedals that can be run at 18v instead of 9v and then do have... more headroom?

(full disclosure: part trolling, part truly wanting to understand )

[actual]

You're so full of it man. You spew randomass semi-right mostly wrong "knowledge" but when asked to back up your shit, you say you're too tired.

Your pedals might have an analog dry-path, but the effect itself is digital.

We’ve gone over that, this whole digital thing is about a fully digital pedal not digital/ analog hybrid pedals that conserve your analog path

You just said that your pedals are merely digitally controlled. If that was the case, your original signal and the effected signal would be analog. This is not the case. A CBA pedal is digitally controlled, but the effect is analog. Your Empress pedals have an analog dry-path but the effect is digital.

As I said with the Joel from Chase bliss thing, I said to you the affected signal is digital but never is the analog signal manipulated. In a true digital effect there is no seperate analog path. Yeah I still need to show you his diagram and I’ll get to that but you’re not telling me anything I’m not aware of

You're wrong dude. The affected signal stays analogue all the time, only the values of the different parameters are controlled digitally. Adding a fucking blend to a digital pedal doesn't make it "non-true digital".

[goroth]

If my empress delay isn’t running from isolated power the tap stops working. Same with the phaser, the lights start to flash and it won’t stay on... I’m very familiar with how all of this works as far as operating goes. Most companies recommend isolated power over daisy chaining, you simply have more reliable operation or the y may run with cleaner headroom

Please Note: The Echosystemrequires at least 300mA of current to function properly. Any power supply rated at 9V DC, supplying negative tip polarity (-) and at least 300 mA of current should work.

Power Supply
Input Voltage
9VDC Center Negative
Required Current
300mA

The Empress manually literally tells you to use anything, and Strymon gives you some basic specs. This is because these pedals are not designed by cowboys and because any power supply with adequate specs is going to work.
Yes, this is a sample size of two, but I'm happy to be proven wrong...

edited because I fucked up the quote syntax.
Also: will note that sometimes pedals can be finicky, but that is the exception rather than the rule.