Recording Big Muffs (new W&C appreciation thread perhaps)

[tremolo3]

I've got my Caprid a few weeks ago and I'm in love, but one thing I'm really having a hard time with is when recording it.

I mainly use it for chordy stuff and minimal single notes, very Mogwai-ish I'd say, so I'm never happy with how the chords sound. If I keep the gain low, I can definitely get better results, but at that point it doesn't sound very muff Single notes do translate well however.


So anyone have experience recording Muffs? Care to share your experiences?


Sorry for not posting in Recording forum but that one is dead

And yeah, new Wren and Cuff thread for my necrobumpin friend

[Ghost Hip]

I have had similar issues recording with big muffs, single notes pop and chords fade into the back. I record direct in, and ever since I started using my Orange Crush headphone out which gives everything that Orange low-mid hump, muffs stick out better. But really you just gotta get some mids in there somehow.

Another more lateral solution might be to plug through the muff and another dirt box at the same time, one onto each track and blend them together in the DAW. Another thing I find helps parts stand out is adding a little bit of modulation if it suits the song. Sometimes adding that slow change in texture sort of draws attention and makes it stick out more.

There are probably more professional solutions out there, but that is what I would try in my set up.

[infamousalien]

What kind of amp and guitar do you use? What kind of mics and how are you placing them? I've had good results recording muffs but I need to know more about your set up. I use an e609 on the speaker and a condenser about a foot and a half or so back. I play through a JCM800 which has good midrange though. Also don't be afraid of a little post EQ sculpting to make stuff fit/sound better.

[tremolo3]

Another more lateral solution might be to plug through the muff and another dirt box at the same time, one onto each track and blend them together in the DAW. Another thing I find helps parts stand out is adding a little bit of modulation if it suits the song. Sometimes adding that slow change in texture sort of draws attention and makes it stick out more.

Dude, never thought about this!
Will give a shot for sure.

Thank you!

[tremolo3]

What kind of amp and guitar do you use? What kind of mics and how are you placing them? I've had good results recording muffs but I need to know more about your set up. I use an e609 on the speaker and a condenser about a foot and a half or so back. I play through a JCM800 which has good midrange though. Also don't be afraid of a little post EQ sculpting to make stuff fit/sound better.

I have a few amps: Champ, Twin, YBA1 and an Eighty-Five.
Speakers: A mix of Celestions and Eminence, nothing really rock&roll like V30s.
Guitar is Jazzmaster, which has a really middy neck pickup and an anemic bridge pickup, middle position is what I mostly use because it's very balanced EQ wise and where I obviously get less hum.
Mics: e609 and ES-57 (SM57 clone). Thinking in getting a condenser as a room mic but I really don't want to spend more, unless there's something really cheap out there

As for placement, I do mostly close micing, been trying different angles and even a few feet away from speakers, the latter being the least worst results, but I end up getting too much noise from the room since I have to compensate a little bit in my interface's preamp so I'm really trying to stick with close micing.

I've never thought of doing post EQ or anything post, I'm trying to get it "right" in the 1st step, but I might have to do that

Any EQ tips for this?

[BitchPudding]

My stuff is all direct in thru a bass amp, all the high gain duty is done with my big muff. Standard NYC big box you can get anywhere.

For me, part of what helps is I never use my muff without having it stacked with my Super Overdrive before it with the gain at about 1-2 o clock. I feel like that helps compensate for some of the drop out in the mix that happens.

Beyond that, I also do a lot of mixing and EQing in my DAW. For Guitars, minimum of two tracks, one panned far right, one far left. Each track is run through my DAWs stock compressor, then giving a high cut. Solos are just compressed, no high cut. From there, once everything else is tracked its just a matter of listening through the track a few times over with the mixer open and adjusting volume levels, occasionally going back for extra editing.

So to sum it up: stack it with something else before it, work out the kinks in post.

Trial and error is key.

You can find examples of my work in my sig for reference. "HEEBEEGEEBEES" and "Pen to Burning Paper" are good examples of this technique.

[tremolo3]

That one in HEEBEEGEEBEGEES sounds beautiful man!

Can't find the other one in your bandcamp though.

Mmmm, my Caprid sound really good by itself but I'll try that too, I used to pair my fuzzes with an EQ due to this eternal issue of getting lost in the mix, but for recording never really had an issue, until know, I guess my ears are getting worst? lol

[infamousalien]

Mics: e609 and ES-57 (SM57 clone). Thinking in getting a condenser as a room mic but I really don't want to spend more, unless there's something really cheap out there

As for placement, I do mostly close micing, been trying different angles and even a few feet away from speakers, the latter being the least worst results, but I end up getting too much noise from the room since I have to compensate a little bit in my interface's preamp so I'm really trying to stick with close micing.

I've never thought of doing post EQ or anything post, I'm trying to get it "right" in the 1st step, but I might have to do that

Any EQ tips for this?

I think a condenser mic would help out a lot. Doesn't have to be an expensive one. I used one that I got from a GC sale for years before I got a better one. Ribbon mic might also be a good choice in combination with the 57. As far as EQ I'd say just fiddle around a bit until you find what works. I'm not super familiar with recording through Fender amps honestly.

[ibarakishi]

Everyone will have different opinions, but here is mine.

1.) if you are recording guitar, close mic it. Don't DI it. And spend some time moving it around the amp close to the cone. I usually settle on a slightly off-axis setup really closer to the cone, but your results will vary

2.) The bands you mention (Mogwai, ect.) are not recording one guitar tone. They are layering usually two takes of the same riff/ chord progression for the focal parts/ anchors of their songs. If you want your 'fuzz' tones to really stand out, i would suggest actually recording your fuzz tone (the caprid) and then rerecord the same/similar riff with a more tamed overdrive sound or even a distortion like someone mentioned above. In your DAW you will then notch out spots in your fuzz tone for the frequencies that are important in your overdrive take to stick out, and then the notch out some spots in your overdrive take for your important frequencies for your fuzz tone to stand out. You will then either pan these out on separate side of the stereo field, or group them on one side but slightly spaced on that side (it will depend on your mix and song as to what sounds and feels right). When i finally realised that this is how people make really open and powerful sounds in the records i liked, it really changed my life. I am also a huge advocate for recording two separate takes instead of just DIing one take into different effects because it will really give the tiny details and imperfections that will make your recording come to life in a hurry.

3.) Think about frequency overlap / masking. Since you care about recording, always keep in check what space your fuzz tone is taking up sonically and what other things you are adding are going to take away from that or hide it. Fuzz takes get out of control quick if you are not consciously managing your overlap with other takes and instruments.

4.) Inside your DAW, once you record your fuzz and overdrive/distortion pairs, don't be afraid to further edit your takes with saturators and compressors. I know in LOGIC at least, you have the option to also choose how your compressor distorts the signal. The two black compressors, when set to have the distortion on the 'Low' setting, really make your signal jump out of the speakers with distorted material like guitars. Play around with it and have fun.

5.) If you are working with a DAW, usually it is better in my experience to set your distortion levels for your fuzz and overdrive signals just a hair less than you want to taste in real life. This also give you wiggle room to mess around with stuff further in the box and push things if you decide to later on.

6.) Play around with different mics like someone said above. But with that being said, you can get some killer sounds to come from just about any budget dynamic mic so long as you are willing to take the time to mess around with the stuff i stated above.

Don't know if this helps any. I will think about this more and try to post other things if i can remember anything else.

[BitchPudding]

That one in HEEBEEGEEBEGEES sounds beautiful man!

Can't find the other one in your bandcamp though.

Mmmm, my Caprid sound really good by itself but I'll try that too, I used to pair my fuzzes with an EQ due to this eternal issue of getting lost in the mix, but for recording never really had an issue, until know, I guess my ears are getting worst? lol

Should be track two of "Evergreen". Also on spotify if you have that.

This thread is great, taking notes haha

[popvulture]

Awesome stuff in this thread! Love the bits about blending signals especially. The one thing I'll add that hasn't been mentioned is specific close mic placement—since muffs most often tend to sound rolled off and a bit lacking in mids, I'd maybe consider placing the mic a little closer to the center of the speaker than you maybe normally would, as it's darker the farther out from center you go. That said, there might be some spikiness due to the Jazzmaster (though I'd say less so in middle position), so pull back outward a tiny bit if necessary.

Might help! Also in a DAW (or hardware) yiou could try EQ before compression to accentuate certain frequencies going into the comp.

[Ghost Hip]

Guitar is Jazzmaster, which has a really middy neck pickup and an anemic bridge pickup, middle position is what I mostly use because it's very balanced EQ wise and where I obviously get less hum.

What pickups do you have? Or are they stock? Just curious!

[actual]

I think some notch eq could help you remove unwanted frequencies, making the actual chords stand out more. Found a little tutorial on it, check the piano example

https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/sw ... -cms-19832

[tremolo3]

Guitar is Jazzmaster, which has a really middy neck pickup and an anemic bridge pickup, middle position is what I mostly use because it's very balanced EQ wise and where I obviously get less hum.

What pickups do you have? Or are they stock? Just curious!

Yes, the strat-y ones that come in Japanese JMs.


And thanks to everyone for posting, I really didn't want to do overdubs, blends and post processing but if that's the only way...


Does anybody have experience with this extremely cheap condenser mic:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqp-E5Xwy1Y[/youtube]

I didn't know we can have condensers at $20! I might get one just as a room mic (seems OK from other clips in yt) but I might end up using it for close micing

[GardenoftheDead]

TBH, boost the input with a tube screamer.