Vero vs Point to Point vs PCB vs SMD

[whoismarykelly]

People who buy DAM pedals buy them because they are big, expensive, and made on vero like the vintage pedals they often replicate. Its a very specific product that doesn't fit into the "vero is for rookies in their moms' basements" narrative seen in this thread.

[drolo]

People who buy DAM pedals buy them because they are big, expensive, and made on vero like the vintage pedals they often replicate. Its a very specific product that doesn't fit into the "vero is for rookies in their moms' basements" narrative seen in this thread.

I have seen a couple of people mention vintage pedals being made on vero but I was under the impression that they were mainly using PCB's at the time? Given that a lot were manufactured in large numbers etc
Granted I have never really made any research in vintage pedal construction methods so I probably just don't know
Any examples though ?

[rustywire]

Isn't the real moral that quality design and build trump everything else?

I agree those are the 2 most influential variables; a well-designed circuit and well-executed build.
3rd would be the physical properties of the components themselves...whereas the simpler the circuit, the greater each piece's influence.

People who buy DAM pedals buy them because they are big, expensive, and made on vero like the vintage pedals they often replicate. Its a very specific product that doesn't fit into the "vero is for rookies in their moms' basements" narrative seen in this thread.

Right. D*A*M are put together like a swiss watch. They do use standardized parts (albeit scarce) but most crucially is the care taken in their selection & individual tuning. Some people buy them because of the prestige/status symbol/brand association...as is the case with most couture & premium luxury items.

[MechaGodzilla]

Mmmmmm, nah.
I'd be kinda pissed (bit of a strong word, more like disappointed) if I paid $285 and opened it up to see that.

Good thing they don't cost that much! Mine certainly didn't anyway.

[jrfox92]

Mmmmmm, nah.
I'd be kinda pissed (bit of a strong word, more like disappointed) if I paid $285 and opened it up to see that.

Good thing they don't cost that much! Mine certainly didn't anyway.

Ah, shit, right.
That was the first price that popped up on google. Looks like they're only ~$200 MSRP.
Still not wild about it, but it's not quite as egregious as $285.

[Mosfed]

I can see preferring one because you think it looks better or that something is easier to repair, but past that, if done well, all techniques should lend great results. I have nothing against SMD.

[Jwar]

Have not read the entire thread. I just didn't because I have my own through here and they may not aline with anyone else.

Here's what I think.

Vero for unique stuff is awesome. It allows you to play outside of the box, easily mod and make changes later down the line, and adds a nice personal touch to pedals. I do NOT see it as unprofessional or tacky or anything like that. Alan exclusively did his stuff on vero for years and years. I actually wrote to Alan and gave him a contact for pcb's a couple years back. I know he ended up doing it through someone else, but I figured I'd help out. Ryan from Fuzzrocious also started on vero. Brian from SS/BS did vero in some of the pedals I've had. I want to say I've even had pedals from Dwarfcraft in the earlier days that were on vero. Fuck even DAM has done vero. So, not a bad thing at all IMO. It does not look as cool, but again, who the hell is looking??

PTP. Man I am a fucking sucker for point to point. Top companies that make me moist with this are Stonefly, Creepy Fingers, Dan W (you sexy bitch), DAM, 6 Degrees (shit looks sick as fuck), Lollygagger (even though I don't really like the sound of the pedals) and so on. These to me sound fucking amazing. The thing is though, I love vintage circuits. Didn't used to, but I do now. Something about ptp just looks right to me with vintage shit. So, that's why I love them.

PCB's are fucking GREAT. It's the gold standard for almost all guitar pedal companies and amp companies alike. They are cheap, reliable (for the most part) and easy to work with. The only thing I hate about pcb's is when a trace gets fucked up. Or an entire run gets fucked up. It happens, and it happens far too often. It can happen if you get Chinese stuff or Murican made. It does not matter. However, they are cheap like I said. Literally pennies depending on how many you order. For building they are great because you can order some semi pre-loaded with resistors and other components if wanted. I do not like when builder attach pcb stomps however to the boards. Why? Well because this is probably the most common component to fail and replacing it is much easier without a pcb, especially if the stomp pcb is attached to the actual circuit board. I fucking hate that. All and all though, they are great. Look good, work well and you can customize them for the nerds that look on the inside.

SMD. I love SMD. Do I want to solder with SMD? Fuck no. Do I realize that SMD is easier, cheaper and usually goes in pedals that are sold at a high premium? Yea, so what. SMD is one of the cheapest things to do in the pedal world. I've sourced it and it's beyond cheap. The components are so fucking cheap for the most part that it's actually hilarious. However, they last a long fucking time, they are cheap to replace (entire boards loaded even) and they require far less power to make them work. They are generally quieter from my experience as well unless you're using a noisy circuit. Overall though, SMD is just smart, sleek and great for most stuff. I get the hate from some though.

So as a whole, I could give a crap less how a pedal is made as long as it sounds good and last awhile.

[whoismarykelly]

People who buy DAM pedals buy them because they are big, expensive, and made on vero like the vintage pedals they often replicate. Its a very specific product that doesn't fit into the "vero is for rookies in their moms' basements" narrative seen in this thread.

I have seen a couple of people mention vintage pedals being made on vero but I was under the impression that they were mainly using PCB's at the time? Given that a lot were manufactured in large numbers etc
Granted I have never really made any research in vintage pedal construction methods so I probably just don't know
Any examples though ?

Vox, MK1.5, and MKII Tone Benders were all built on vero board. There may be others but those are the basis for the modern fancy fuzz vero craze.

[drolo]

People who buy DAM pedals buy them because they are big, expensive, and made on vero like the vintage pedals they often replicate. Its a very specific product that doesn't fit into the "vero is for rookies in their moms' basements" narrative seen in this thread.

I have seen a couple of people mention vintage pedals being made on vero but I was under the impression that they were mainly using PCB's at the time? Given that a lot were manufactured in large numbers etc
Granted I have never really made any research in vintage pedal construction methods so I probably just don't know
Any examples though ?

Vox, MK1.5, and MKII Tone Benders were all built on vero board. There may be others but those are the basis for the modern fancy fuzz vero craze.

alright :-)
I always think of this kind of stuff for that era:



But the circuits are simple enough that it would make sense to use vero, perf or whatever they had around back then.

[whoismarykelly]

People who buy DAM pedals buy them because they are big, expensive, and made on vero like the vintage pedals they often replicate. Its a very specific product that doesn't fit into the "vero is for rookies in their moms' basements" narrative seen in this thread.

I have seen a couple of people mention vintage pedals being made on vero but I was under the impression that they were mainly using PCB's at the time? Given that a lot were manufactured in large numbers etc
Granted I have never really made any research in vintage pedal construction methods so I probably just don't know
Any examples though ?

Vox, MK1.5, and MKII Tone Benders were all built on vero board. There may be others but those are the basis for the modern fancy fuzz vero craze.

alright :-)
I always think of this kind of stuff for that era:



But the circuits are simple enough that it would make sense to use vero, perf or whatever they had around back then.

That's only the MKI and even then there were very very few of those made. PCBs were very common in the 60s with stuff like the fuzz face and fuzz tone. They were just made by bigger companies with more resources.

[waltdogg]

yeah ampeg was all pcb with a little bit of ptp or turret layout here and there even way back in the 60s and 70s. same for the original musicman amps of the 70s iirc.

edit: just thought about it. ampeg is not the best example in terms of their amps actually being stable and low noise. even with regular service.