Vero vs Point to Point vs PCB vs SMD

[waltdogg]

Yeah I can't say I give a shit as long as it works.

i'm still gonna be a snob about my handwired hellhawk though.

[ElChalupacabra]

I prefer PCB if I'm payin over $100. They just feel more professional, but I love Vero and have a good respect for Etched boards like these, they just look so clean. I think with Vero if it's a rat's nest that's what puts me off. Any board could look clean enough, but if the wires are sloppy how well is it soldered, but that's just me.



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[goroth]

Yeah I can't say I give a shit as long as it works.

This.

There is no difference in the type of circuits we are using, over the frequency range that we are using.

Some of what you guys are talking about, like parasitic inductance etc, is just the result of poor layout, and not the technology used to do that layout. You can have a layout that reduces noise with smd, just as well as you can with perf. Or you can have shit layouts.

[MechaGodzilla]

I prefer PCB if I'm payin over $100. They just feel more professional, but I love Vero and have a good respect for Etched boards like these, they just look so clean. I think with Vero if it's a rat's nest that's what puts me off. Any board could look clean enough, but if the wires are sloppy how well is it soldered, but that's just me.

Well obviously DAM pedals are gonna be better than anything else, but if you have a problem with stuff like this

despite the fact that it sounds great and is a really versatile pedal, then you probably need to reassess your priorities in terms of gear.

[fuzzisokiguess]

Always go back to Monsterpiece when I see this discussion- unreal precision.

Looking at DAM and Monsterpiece, I'm reminded how great it is that fuzz hasn't become about algorithms (yet).

[frigid midget]

Pretty sure the actual differences in sound or durability only exist in theory

But yeah, someone else already pretty said what I think: Vero looks a bit more messy and diy, and those pedals usualy don't come from dedicated small companies who struggle to make a name and a living, and who have more overhead than the average kid who's soldering clone pedals together in his mom's basement or whatever

So anything around the $100 mark should have a more professional pcb imo, and like a quality screen printed powder coated enclosure. It surprises me that you still see dudes slap a comic sans printed label on their vero board tubescreamer clones and expect people to buy 'em for the same price as 3 mooers

Edit: Just now saw the post about DAM and Monsterpiece. So much for my 'messy and diy' argument
But yeah, I think it's safe to assume that that sort of work is more an exception than a rule, I'm pretty sure vero is the prefered way to go for anyone's first pedal building experiments, and for amateur small quantity builds. Which doesn't mean it's an inferior method in any way, just sayin'...

[new05002]

Dont confuse PTP with turret and eyelet. PTP is on terminal strips (see like Eldritch Electronics) or like a Sunn Amp design or some kind of floating solder approach. Anything on a board with turrets and eyelets is no longer PTP.

In the audio frequency range (20 - 20k) there is not going to be any blinded detectable difference between the methods assuming all or most variables are controlled.

At higher frequencies performance differences would manifest. I am thinking like GHz range stuff or digital signals where 50 ohm impedance becomes important and the losses due to substrate/EM fields become an issue.

[ElChalupacabra]

At MechaGodzilla most certainly do not have a problem with a build like that

but...

Always go back to Monsterpiece when I see this discussion- unreal precision.

Looking at DAM and Monsterpiece, I'm reminded how great it is that fuzz hasn't become about algorithms (yet).

^^ this is what I mean, as long as the wires are neat and it looks like care was taken into building it that's a plus. I don't care what it looks like, but if I'm going to be on the road I don't want something to crap out on me, and because I see tidiness I feel the builder took care into building it.

But that's me.

[crochambeau]

Dont confuse PTP with turret and eyelet. PTP is on terminal strips (see like Eldritch Electronics) or like a Sunn Amp design or some kind of floating solder approach. Anything on a board with turrets and eyelets is no longer PTP.

In my mind you can achieve a point to point assembly on a turret or eyelet board, so long as the connecting components meet at the available structural node and there is no nested wiring completing the circuit.

I've seen & built terminal strip constructions that do not adhere to that strict (albeit personal and very likely somewhat inaccurate) interpretation.

I've been biting my tongue like crazy on this thread, as everyone has already covered anything I would have contributed, so thank you for giving me an edge in and I apologize for being pedantic.

Yeah I can't say I give a shit as long as it works.

Yeah!

[rustywire]

Masterpieces come in many forms:

NSFW: show

[chuckjaywalk]

Isn't the real moral that quality design and build trump everything else?

[new05002]

Dont confuse PTP with turret and eyelet. PTP is on terminal strips (see like Eldritch Electronics) or like a Sunn Amp design or some kind of floating solder approach. Anything on a board with turrets and eyelets is no longer PTP.

In my mind you can achieve a point to point assembly on a turret or eyelet board, so long as the connecting components meet at the available structural node and there is no nested wiring completing the circuit.

I've seen & built terminal strip constructions that do not adhere to that strict (albeit personal and very likely somewhat inaccurate) interpretation.

I've been biting my tongue like crazy on this thread, as everyone has already covered anything I would have contributed, so thank you for giving me an edge in and I apologize for being pedantic.

Yeah!

The problem with that is that it doesn't provide distinction between what I would call turret or eyelet vs a PTP build. I would also say when it comes time to fixing a PTP build that its like pulling teeth while a fix on a turret board is easy.
There certainly are some gray areas with terminal strips but given that they are not a board based design its really unlike a turret or eyelet setup.

and yea i am very pedantic when the word PTP comes up. I think its a buzz word that sellers like to throw around like it means something important instead of what it should mean.

[crochambeau]

Agreed, marketing has poisoned a lot of terminology.

[new05002]

Agreed, marketing has poisoned a lot of terminology.

All good though.

There is certainly lots discussion on the googlez over the terminology.

[jrfox92]

Dont confuse PTP with turret and eyelet. PTP is on terminal strips (see like Eldritch Electronics) or like a Sunn Amp design or some kind of floating solder approach. Anything on a board with turrets and eyelets is no longer PTP.

This is actually what I meant when I was referring to PTP, and why I considered it one of the most difficult to repair.

I prefer PCB if I'm payin over $100. They just feel more professional, but I love Vero and have a good respect for Etched boards like these, they just look so clean. I think with Vero if it's a rat's nest that's what puts me off. Any board could look clean enough, but if the wires are sloppy how well is it soldered, but that's just me.

Well obviously DAM pedals are gonna be better than anything else, but if you have a problem with stuff like this

NSFW: show

despite the fact that it sounds great and is a really versatile pedal, then you probably need to reassess your priorities in terms of gear.

Mmmmmm, nah.
I'd be kinda pissed (bit of a strong word, more like disappointed) if I paid $285 and opened it up to see that. Especially when you consider that a design like that can fit inside of a 125B enclosure (messy example, but that's mostly because of the relay).