WERSI Helios W2T Organ, any info?

[frodog]

Yo, first time making a thread here, and I don't expect much response... but hey, anyone have any experiences with WERSI organs? A friend of mine went to look at one from the '70s today that was supposed to be in great condition but turned out not to be. Playable, but possibly with some problems, a little shabby-looking and more expensive than he anticipated. It's a beast though - beautiful sounds, bass pedals, long BBD delay(s), reverb tank, tremolo, wah, arpeggiator, drum module, 2x70w power amps - basically a ton of options but complicated as fuck to repair I bet. Klaus Wunderlich played one, but other than that I don't have any references. Probably some prog bands used it as well. Eivind?

The bottom line is, would this be worth getting even if it needed repairs? For parts? Is $600 a fair price? That was what he wanted for it I think. My friend didn't want to lowball him there and then because he seemed depressed about letting it go for cheap since he paid a fortune for it back in the day. Still, this would be an awesome thing to have, it's got so many rad features.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn0nZeXFffY[/youtube]

[echorec]

1) Who is selling it? A business or an individual. If it's a business, your friend needs to ask himself, "If it's an easy fix, why hasn't it already been repaired?
2) Where are you?
3) Has your friend looked at the details for these on organ forums? It seems manuals are hard to come by in English. The other initial concern I have is sourcing parts for an instrument that hasn't been produced in 25 years.
4) Why does he want it---novelty, recording, is he already playing a lot of keyboards?

If you use eBay, Craigslist, facebook groups, and other sources (local trade papers & free cycling), there are generally many organ/keyboard/piano options out there. I've grabbed Hammonds and Farfisas multiple times for $50-200. Many people will give these away, or ask very little because they're just in the way (large, heavy, in need of minor to major repairs).

The problem with organ-hunting is that you've also got these church groups and AARP members who paid $10,000 for something in the 70s and they think it should still be worth $500-1000 today. I would never pay $600 for a vintage organ, unless I already had a relationship with a local tech and the item was valued at $2,000+. You could easily be looking at hundreds in repairs with a 99% chance of reselling at a significant loss. ---Do I personally think this unit could easily fetch $2,000 in working condition? No, I do not.

The only groups I see paying $600+ for organs are: studio owners, churches, and home owners with a lot space (moving organs fucking sucks and it's not like you're going to play shows with a bulky 200-lb instrument).

As far as the WERSI brand, they were German made, so you're unlikely to find a WERSI specialist locally. ---Of course if you're near a major market (LA, ATL, Chicago, Minneapolis), there's likely to be a local technician who has repaired all sorts of keyboard brands over the years. I'm familiar with the WERSI name, because they also made bass synths and some other oddities I've looked at over the years, but I can't tell you much about the Helios series. From what I'm hearing on YouTube walk-throughs, your friend would probably be better off getting something for 1/3 of the cost for nearly identical sounds. The nice thing about old Hammonds and Lowreys is they generally have an external input for headphones or external speakers, so you can practice at night or run your organ through effects. ---If he wants the cheese of vintage drum machines and auto-sequencing, then other brands incorporated the same stuff (Gem had 'magic chord' for example).

I would definitely take a look around eBay and some other sites.

Listings like this are pretty common:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hammond-Organ-H ... 2368121601

If you go with eBay, you can filter your search results by closest distance, and there are many brands to browse---Lowrey, Gem, Baldwin, Wurlitzer, Yamaha, et cetera.

If someone just wants furniture, then try Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Florida.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOWREY-HERITAGE ... 1#viTabs_0

[frodog]

1) Who is selling it? A business or an individual. If it's a business, your friend needs to ask himself, "If it's an easy fix, why hasn't it already been repaired?
2) Where are you?
3) Has your friend looked at the details for these on organ forums? It seems manuals are hard to come by in English. The other initial concern I have is sourcing parts for an instrument that hasn't been produced in 25 years.
4) Why does he want it---novelty, recording, is he already playing a lot of keyboards?

Thanks for the reply! To answer yr questions:

1) It's a local dude selling it, I think he's just had it sitting around for ages.
2) I'm in Norway, in a small town, so this was a rare find, and close enough to pick up.
3) Yes, he said he researched it for a week before going to check it out.
4) Playing and recording, definitely. This guy plays everything, and is one third of the band I'm in. It might live at his remote house, or our even more remote practice space/studio.

The thing that attracted him to this (besides the fact that he likes organs) was all the options, like delay, tremolo, and advanced arpeggiator and auto-chord functions. As I understood him from our phone conversation he tried it for a bit and it sounded awesome, it was more that the guy selling it, like you said, maybe expected to get a good chunk of money for it since he paid a leg.

Hopefully my friend will end up buying this, or I might go in with him, because we both love old organs and the ones that usually are available 'round here are very basic, and he already has one of those. It won't be used for gigging of course, but both places where it will potentially end up have room enough and recording facilities, so it would definitely be put to good use. I don't think any of us would go so far as to buy an organ off ebay, we're not rich collectors or anything. But if this thing works alright and the guy selling it is willing to let it go for cheap it would be so rad. A Hammond or Farfisa would also be cool, but I don't think those usually have as many weird functions as a Wersi. That Lowrey organ looks neat, but I've never seen those in Norway.

[echorec]

Hmm. I didn't realize/forgot you were in Norway (but it's hard to remember everyone's locations). That definitely limits your buying options. --What about sites like FINN.no? Do you have any other popular classified/auction sites where organs might be advertised? In the US, we also have garage sales, pawn shops, local auction houses, and estate sales.

$600/5,050 Krones still seems like a lot for a unit in need of some maintenance. I guess it depends on what it needs and what resources you have locally (is there a local keyboard tech?). Does it have dead keys, or are some of the effects not firing off? Personally I'd go with a synth that does organ banks and just feed it through effects. It'd be more portable and more practical, but also require absolutely no upkeep.

---Can you make purchases from eBay UK? The GEM series is lightweight (non-tube) with effects (like wah/filter), percussion, and rhythm accompaniment ('magic chord', auto chord type of stuff). If you and your friend are already flirting with $600, that might be a better option. You could likely score something like a GEM for $150-220, then pay shipping and still come out under $600. Elka, Vermona, Elka, Teisco, RMI and several other companies also made portal budget models with a variety of tones and basic effects.

I think I have one of these in storage (Rodeo or a Sprinter 49, but several GEMS share similar features).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBuTsCUAjPQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmKDo7eO3BA[/youtube]

Personally, if I was playing Santa for someone with a $600 budget, I'd buy them a Reface YC and a delay pedal----it's not going to have the visual mojo of a large organ from yesteryear, but you will get a rotating Leslie, vibrato, chorus, distortion, reverb, and MIDI from the Reface. As someone who has owned about 15 vintage keyboards (tube organs, transistor organs, electric pianos, string synths), I always try to remind people of the ongoing maintenance required. It's not just what you spend upfront, it's the ongoing costs (just like buying a boat or a car). I've had several things over the years, that I was lucky to sell and break even on. I purchased a pair of Hohner string synths and it took months for them to be repaired. By the time they were ready for me, I didn't have the funds to cover the repairs and I lost the initial investment money in them. ---I have a fairly strict cap for vintage restoration projects, though, and I stick to that, in order to minimize any losses. I won't spend money, if I know I can't resell it as-is in non-working condition, in order to recoup my money.

I guess I would say to your friend: if you buy it and it needs $300-500 worth of repairs, who is going to fix it and when is it going to be fixed? If you run out of repair funds, could you actually sell it locally and get your initial $600 back?

---Just try to keep your options open and keep doing research, keep hunting good deals, so you can protect yourselves, in order to get the best gear and have the most fun. Good luck.

[frodog]

Thanks dude, it sounds like you have a lot of organ experience, very cool! Yeah, a lot of things to consider. Though it's not me who's gonna buy it, I'm aching to try this thing for myself, so if my friend goes back there I will tag along. $600, even 300, is too steep for either of us I think. And there are no keyboard techs around here as far as I know. There is an amp guy, but he works very slow. Anyway, that Wersi is supposed to have something like 100 separate circuit boards inside... not an easy troubleshooting job, even if you know what you're doing (which I do not).

FINN is an option, yes, surprised you know about that! I check it every day though, and on the rare occasion I find a nice vintage Elka or similar they're expensive. Personally I just have a Casiotone 202, which is not super versatile, but doesn't take up much space and sounds good through some effects. I have checked out the Yamaha Reface series and they seem awesome, but I think my friend (like me) is into the "visual mojo of a large organ", hehee... so a small keyboard with few knobs is not going to cut it probably.

Will keep you updated on how this goes.

[echorec]

It's disappointing that your options are so limited. In much of the US, all you need to get a vintage organ is a truck and a friend to help you lift it. Maybe you need to hunt down Asa, and see if he has any beaters collecting dust in storage.

----I like the 202 and some of its siblings. A friend is supposed to be giving me a 501, whenever our schedules are in agreement for a future meet-up. As far as the Reface series, some people can definitely adapt to those keys, but personally I think of them as sound modules. If you slave a Reface to larger controller and a MIDI splitter (about $49 US), then you can stack 4-5 MIDI engines quite easily (organ+pads+synth A+ synth B simultaneously).

Also, with that series you're only 1-2 pedals away from doing sci-fi soundtracks, experimental psych tracks, or ambient improv. This guy has done some cool demos of the CP model. There's also at least one video of the YC in non-organ settings (bass synth, video game sounds).

Anyway, keep me posted. I hope you guys can find something nice to play with.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRVffL8w_QM[/youtube]