Misty Cave vs. Particle... how similar?

[popvulture]

Ok so, the Misty Cave has seemed rill cool to me for a long time, but I'm wondering... a lot of the demos I've heard have that sort of lovely metallic / hollow sound, which reminds me a lot of some of the tones I've gotten with the Particle.

Just curious if I should be thinking of spending my money on something else, something that's got less crossover with a pedal I already own. Am I off the mark? Never owned any LAL stuff... maybe an 88 would be more of a fun purchase. Halp pls.

PS totally broke atm, not even sure why I'm pondering this

[D.o.S.]

I don't know that I would compare them directly like that, but I think the metallic/hollow sound is less important that the weird resonant LFO that the MC gives you -- but I've never really fucked around with a particle.

[Ev_O)))]

I didn't think so. The Misty cave's like a very short delay with extreme resonant peaks. Analog. The particle is a big buffershufflin granular digital deal. Very different I think. You might be able to approximate fixed resonant peaks on the particle to get that metallic thing, or maybe it's a biproduct of the granulatin but idk

I'd look at the LAL Transroom if you're looking for something a little more different from LAL. Analog (Bucket brigade chip based) reverb that's kinda similar to the Misty Cave but way more versatile and murky and grotty as all hell. Also stereo. It sounds really really mad.

[popvulture]

Cool cool, thanx y'all. Unfortunately this is one of those pedals I'll likely never get to try before buying (as was the Particle), so the input is super helpful.

Ev: I'll def check out the Transroom

[fcknoise]

Isn't the misty cave a digital chip too?

The misty cave should be considered for the lfo, as DoS said. The metallic resonant sound can be found in quite a lot of stuff. Akai head rush does it really good, and that's like 50$?

Particle does way more stuff, I wouldn't really compare them like that

[lordgalvar]

Nope not digital

Misty cave does misty cave. It's kind of its own thing. (Headrush won't do it). The resonance from it is one of those things that can't be communicated via YouTube well...It's got a feel to it. It's an analog echo with a very short delay time (like flanger range) and no filtering for distinctive repeats. The LFO is square wave on/off kinda thing. The end result is kind of a frozen comb filter effect that shits drastically due to the LFO shape...But also very naturally. When the LFO, the repeat and the signal all meet at a harmonic frequency, you get this wonderful bloom of resonance....It's like being in a large, tight chamber. The metallic sound is kind of an extension of that idea with just different frequencies being brought out. It isn't a rhymthic delay in the traditional sense.

Koma BD-1 would probably be a close approximation, but the misty cave is less arcane and more forgiving and still district from other effects. It's a hard thing to explain, but I would say the end result is more echo/filter.

Transition is like the old dod analog reverb or the old Roland amp top analog hall echos. It again is less filtered than other more proper analog delays like the misty cave. You can get some mod delay/flange type sounds that the misty cave can do, but not to the same degree. It almost sounds like feedback sometimes with the modulation like you are swinging the guitar around and changing the intensity of feedback. There are some vibrato sounds in there too.

The transroom is somewhat hard to dial in with the mix and a hot signal; I find it works best with a straight signal because the sound is kind of delicate (whereas the misty cave can dominate a lot of different sources). This won't rumble a room like the misty cave. It's neat, but inspired by older thoughts on reverb before all the modern DSP stuff. It's unique.

Particle is a totally different thing.

If you want that misty cave sound, there is misty cave....It's a pretty specific thing. I wouldn't call it versitile or always needed, but it does something special.

[fcknoise]

Sure, LG that is more truthful than my post. But I still say that there are other pedals that achieve the same kinda sound but does tons more. The timebender does it quite well but at those low delaytimes the sweep is stepped rather than continuous. Idk, I had a misty cave a while but I feel like other stuff did it's thing well enough and it was hard to justify keeping it. Could be just me though

[lordgalvar]

Timebender I could see how you could pull it off, but not headrush (and it wouldn't be the same sound, like you said, but similar in idea). I've gotten the dd-5 close before too with some outside help (idea-wise...But it had a different character). I have an amdek flanger that I think has an LFO problem that can get really close with a short delay after it (still more chime-y though). However, I still think misty cave has a vibe all its own. There are certain pedals that it can act pretty mundane with in the context of a setup and clean can be kinda not very fun.

There are combinations with the misty cave that are just amazing ... When trying to something similar with the other pedals, there is a lot of character and swell lost too (like the koma can do the metallic thing, but it is way more harsh, hard to dial in, and just missing that something special). It's an odd one and the effect doesn't always work, but it is pretty distinct misty cave when it is at full bloom. However, I haven't tried a misty cave work-a-like on the timebender (or something like nemesis).

Misty cave always sticks out as one of the more unique and distinct effects that I have...The similar in concept but not exact sound thing may not matter in a long chain anyway....But I only use like max 4 pedals ever (meaning I could see the overall character of the misty cave being lost in a longer chain...I think it kinda has to do its own thing ).

I always play loud and through my beta lead...Never headphones...Don't know if that makes a difference I think some of the misty cave work it does is pushing air and then making some physical feedback which spikes the resonance.

But headrush, nah...Not at least the e2 I had.

[goroth]

What about BitQuest on the manual flanger, with the resonance up high? You can then use the expression to mess with that.
Haven't tested, but might be worth considering?

[fcknoise]

Timebender I could see how you could pull it off, but not headrush (and it wouldn't be the same sound, like you said, but similar in idea). I've gotten the dd-5 close before too with some outside help (idea-wise...But it had a different character). I have an amdek flanger that I think has an LFO problem that can get really close with a short delay after it (still more chime-y though). However, I still think misty cave has a vibe all its own. There are certain pedals that it can act pretty mundane with in the context of a setup and clean can be kinda not very fun.

There are combinations with the misty cave that are just amazing ... When trying to something similar with the other pedals, there is a lot of character and swell lost too (like the koma can do the metallic thing, but it is way more harsh, hard to dial in, and just missing that something special). It's an odd one and the effect doesn't always work, but it is pretty distinct misty cave when it is at full bloom. However, I haven't tried a misty cave work-a-like on the timebender (or something like nemesis).

Misty cave always sticks out as one of the more unique and distinct effects that I have...The similar in concept but not exact sound thing may not matter in a long chain anyway....But I only use like max 4 pedals ever (meaning I could see the overall character of the misty cave being lost in a longer chain...I think it kinda has to do its own thing ).

I always play loud and through my beta lead...Never headphones...Don't know if that makes a difference I think some of the misty cave work it does is pushing air and then making some physical feedback which spikes the resonance.

But headrush, nah...Not at least the e2 I had.

The setting on the headrush is digital delay with the "time course" all the way down and then you adjust with the "time fine" knob. I had them quite some time apart, but it did the thing decently at least.

I made this video showcasing the timebenders MC-setting

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpJzFSljSks[/youtube]

Not sure if it passes as a a replica though

[popvulture]

Galvar's descriptions doubled the temptation

I understand that it does its own thing, which is definitely what I expected to hear... like I said, just wondered about the crossover though. I didn't think the Particle comparison was any kind of facsimile, but I nonetheless heard the sample and thought "that sounds really similar to what I was doing with the density setting recently."

Funny y'all mentioned flange—I didn't immediately think of that but now I totally hear it. I've been thinking about a Spectre too, so maybe this complicates things even further, haha...

[lordgalvar]

Brands: the second setting is closer than the first one, but it sounds more pitchy than purely resonant on the time bender. I also figured what that you were talking about a setting similar to that on the headrush...I don't really think it is similar. But, in a longer chain, that timebender setting may be more versitile .

Popvulture: forgot to mention: particle clips density clips!

Anyway: misty cave vs flange....The peaks are different (the whine feedback noise is at frequencies my akg mic couldn't handle...But it resonates the camera):
[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xMSnPei4DRU[/youtube]

Kinda showing how it kinda gets lost on some notes and blooms on others (more of a memory loss video, sorry haha). Could totally see how some granular sounds could be sonically similar (like sample every so often and restrictions for a while). I think the bigger difference would be response to playing dynamic
[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s2FivxF4o[/youtube]

[resincum]

dunno, I think I can cop the misty cave sound with super short delay time on the dd500 with the feedback cranked/on the verge of oscillation. assign an LFO to time or mod and you're close. then again I only had it for a day but I don't really understand the hype behind it. cause that's exactly what it sounds like to me, a super short delay time with long feedback for the resonance

[Strange Tales]

It's the resonant peaks set by the Time control on the Misty Cave that makes the pedal so damn special. It's a sound that I haven't heard anything else replicate.

[D.o.S.]

dunno, I think I can cop the misty cave sound with super short delay time on the dd500 with the feedback cranked/on the verge of oscillation. assign an LFO to time or mod and you're close. then again I only had it for a day but I don't really understand the hype behind it. cause that's exactly what it like sounds like to me, a super short delay time with long feedback for the resonance

Care to share some detailed settings so I can try this against my memory of the Misty Cave?