Amps: Combo or Head & Cab - which is better & why?

[waltdogg]

in most combos, the tubes are being physically blasted by soundwaves. in a head a cab situation there is far more isolation between the tubes and the speakers.

[CarlGene]

Personally, I prefer head x cab. At home, I run three different halfstacks with three different heads. I enjoy being able to mix and match heads with cabs, and create different tones. Possibilities are pretty much endless. With a combo, you can't really do that.

[blakestree]

Huh?

[popvulture]

I've been a combo guy all my music-playing life, for the most part. '68 Twin, Matchless Chieftain 2x12, Carr Mercury 112 and Victoria 35310 have all treated me very, very well.

BUT. Bought a JMP 50 watt recently because I've always wanted one, and picked up an Orange PPC412 off of Craigslist. I'd always attributed 412 closed back cabs to having a kind of plinky sound, but I realized that at least to my ears, that sound comes more from the Marshall than the cab. The reason I know this is because I plugged my Chieftain's out into the 412 to see how it sounded, and tbh it's the best amp setup I've found. Nearly made me cry the first time I did it, it was so good. I'm going to order a head cab for the Chieftain to convert it as soon as I have the extra money.

So yeah, I still love combos for plenty of applications, but consider my mind VERY much opened to the pluses of a closed-back 412.

[Smarty]

A 20ish watt head and 1x12 cab is usually a little less inconvenient to haul around than a heavy 2x12 20ish watt combo
Plus, if you keep a 1x12 cab at home, and a 4x12 at the place where you jam, you're usually good to go with just a 20ish watt head. Especially if the head's got some sort of power scaling option, to make it easier to use at home. Cheaper than two amps too

Swapping speakers in a combo is just as easy if not easier than replacing a speaker cabinet, so that argument is kinda mute imo

Yep. Any 20-30 watt heads you'd recommend?

[John]

Solid state: duddnt matter. Thoob: head + cab. Combos shake the amp to shit and loosen thoobs. Especially wack when recording. tinkle tinkle WTF is that tinkle, oh it's your fucking combo shaking your thoobs to shit. Separate that junk.

[frigid midget]

I've been a combo guy all my music-playing life, for the most part. '68 Twin, Matchless Chieftain 2x12, Carr Mercury 112 and Victoria 35310 have all treated me very, very well.

BUT. Bought a JMP 50 watt recently because I've always wanted one, and picked up an Orange PPC412 off of Craigslist. I'd always attributed 412 closed back cabs to having a kind of plinky sound, but I realized that at least to my ears, that sound comes more from the Marshall than the cab. The reason I know this is because I plugged my Chieftain's out into the 412 to see how it sounded, and tbh it's the best amp setup I've found. Nearly made me cry the first time I did it, it was so good. I'm going to order a head cab for the Chieftain to convert it as soon as I have the extra money.

So yeah, I still love combos for plenty of applications, but consider my mind VERY much opened to the pluses of a closed-back 412.

Dang, sick amp collection

Never had the privilege of trying a Chieftain, or any Matchless amp for that matter. Would you say it's worth, say $3K...I mean, considering a used twin can be had for about nearly 1/3rd of that amount?

Total overkill for me these days, I don't have the slightest excuse for spending a fortune on an amp I consider to be in the boutique bees knees category.
But I could easily justify buying one if I sell my other amps, and I'm kinda starting to think that no Orange/Fender/Marshall/Vox/Blackstar out there comes remotely close to where I want it to be in terms of build quality and features. Nice amps to be found there, but the few times I played an amp that actually inspired me and gave me a boner, opposed to 'doing an okay job', it turned out to be a pricey ptp handbuild mahfakker Mid priced stuff seems to give me either great cleans or great drive tones, not to mension chinese tubes, a tiny transformer, a thin chinese pcb, etc...
My main work horse these days is a vintage Traynor YBA-1. Build like a tank, top notch parts and all that. But it's loud as fuck, and obviously doesn't have a drive channel, no reverb, no fx loop,...

Srry for derailing the thread btw

[frigid midget]

A 20ish watt head and 1x12 cab is usually a little less inconvenient to haul around than a heavy 2x12 20ish watt combo
Plus, if you keep a 1x12 cab at home, and a 4x12 at the place where you jam, you're usually good to go with just a 20ish watt head. Especially if the head's got some sort of power scaling option, to make it easier to use at home. Cheaper than two amps too

Swapping speakers in a combo is just as easy if not easier than replacing a speaker cabinet, so that argument is kinda mute imo

Yep. Any 20-30 watt heads you'd recommend?

For starters, there's the tiny terror. For the longest time I just assumed it was a cheap ass practice amp, nothing more than a gadget for kids who desperately wanted to jump on the growing Orange craze. Turns out it actually sound pretty impressive if you dial it in really dirty, and use a good cab. Just 15Watt, which allows you to dime it on loud rehearsels/jams. 4x12, any maybe a boost pedal, and you don't have to worry getting squashed by the other guitar or the drums. No headroom, or chill jazz sessions at high volumes though, and the cleans are so-so, at best. Has an extremy useable 7 watts mode, which beats *any* stinkin' attenuator.

In another price range, there's the Marshall 2061x....Ligit Marshall mojo, only a litle more manageable than a 100 watt plexi.

[popvulture]

I've been a combo guy all my music-playing life, for the most part. '68 Twin, Matchless Chieftain 2x12, Carr Mercury 112 and Victoria 35310 have all treated me very, very well.

BUT. Bought a JMP 50 watt recently because I've always wanted one, and picked up an Orange PPC412 off of Craigslist. I'd always attributed 412 closed back cabs to having a kind of plinky sound, but I realized that at least to my ears, that sound comes more from the Marshall than the cab. The reason I know this is because I plugged my Chieftain's out into the 412 to see how it sounded, and tbh it's the best amp setup I've found. Nearly made me cry the first time I did it, it was so good. I'm going to order a head cab for the Chieftain to convert it as soon as I have the extra money.

So yeah, I still love combos for plenty of applications, but consider my mind VERY much opened to the pluses of a closed-back 412.

Dang, sick amp collection

Never had the privilege of trying a Chieftain, or any Matchless amp for that matter. Would you say it's worth, say $3K...I mean, considering a used twin can be had for about nearly 1/3rd of that amount?

Total overkill for me these days, I don't have the slightest excuse for spending a fortune on an amp I consider to be in the boutique bees knees category.
But I could easily justify buying one if I sell my other amps, and I'm kinda starting to think that no Orange/Fender/Marshall/Vox/Blackstar out there comes remotely close to where I want it to be in terms of build quality and features. Nice amps to be found there, but the few times I played an amp that actually inspired me and gave me a boner, opposed to 'doing an okay job', it turned out to be a pricey ptp handbuild mahfakker Mid priced stuff seems to give me either great cleans or great drive tones, not to mension chinese tubes, a tiny transformer, a thin chinese pcb, etc...
My main work horse these days is a vintage Traynor YBA-1. Build like a tank, top notch parts and all that. But it's loud as fuck, and obviously doesn't have a drive channel, no reverb, no fx loop,...

Srry for derailing the thread btw

Haha we all derail. I don't think anybody gets mad about it... not like we're changing the topics to the subtleties of different Timmy pedals or other TGP-esque crap

The Chieftain and the Twin are WAY different. Yes, the Chieftain is Matchless's most "American" amp, but all of their stuff uses British power tubes. Seems like their amp that gets the most attention is the C30, but I'm not a big EL84 guy, always found them to be a little too glassy/brittle. I love EL34s though... the Chieftain and the Clubman 35 (pretty similar circuits) sound fucking fantastic. I prefer having the amp just on the verge of breakup, but it also sounds amazing really cranked. As for the price, they're definitely super high—I lucked out and got an artist price years ago (probably bought it in like '05?), but honestly I'd probably be willing to pay full price. Of all the amps I've owned, that's the best sounding and most versatile. One downside of it, though: INSANELY heavy. Converting it to a head will be a good move for my back, haha.

I think there are a lot of good amps in the lower price range, though. Played a Bassbreaker recently and was pretty impressed. People always shit on Devilles, but I like them. Of course it all depends on what you're playing—I don't really do anything doomy, more indie rockish stuff with a lot of note definition in chords, etc.

[Faldoe]

If you're playing loud and playing shows where being mic'd isn't always certain or not the case at all - say house party, diy venue and the like - then a head and cab is the answer cause you have the casters of the cab - granted you're using a 4x12. But you can just as easily get a good dolly to transport a combo.

At home I have a 73' SF Champ and that is all I need. My studio/practice space amp is head and cab.

And again with volume. If you're music is loud to begin with or has a dynamic range that peaks with a moderately loud sound then combos can be good cause some are lower wattage and can get hit the sweet spot at a lower volume - especially if there is no master volume. Depends on how hard of a hitter the drummer is too.

[culturejam]

I prefer heads and cabs, but not for the same reason as a lot of other folks here. I haven't gigged in ages, and won't be able to for another long while because of my family sitch, so for me it comes down to cost and space. I can easily find space to accommodate one good cab and several heads, but I could not fit several combos in my available space. Also, in cases where a head and combo are available, the head is always at least $100 cheaper, sometimes quite a bit more. Money and space are both important.

Also, I feel like there are more great low-watt heads vs low-watt combos. I can get a 5-15w head and run it through a nice cab and get decent bass response. But a lot of combos on the lower watt side have small speakers and boxy little cabinets and sound very thin (but when you run the speaker out to a decent-sized cab, suddenly the good tone shows up).

So for me, heads/cabs make the most sense.

[Antlerface]

I feel like my ideal space would have 3 2x12 cabs and a ton of heads. All 3 cabs would be different impedance. 4, 8, 16.

Stack a couple two tree heads on each cab and you got yourself 6-10 different amps by switching a speaker cable.

[Smarty]

What about those Bugera amp heads? I know they're Behringer but are they any good, seem quite cheap.

[frigid midget]

I've been a combo guy all my music-playing life, for the most part. '68 Twin, Matchless Chieftain 2x12, Carr Mercury 112 and Victoria 35310 have all treated me very, very well.

BUT. Bought a JMP 50 watt recently because I've always wanted one, and picked up an Orange PPC412 off of Craigslist. I'd always attributed 412 closed back cabs to having a kind of plinky sound, but I realized that at least to my ears, that sound comes more from the Marshall than the cab. The reason I know this is because I plugged my Chieftain's out into the 412 to see how it sounded, and tbh it's the best amp setup I've found. Nearly made me cry the first time I did it, it was so good. I'm going to order a head cab for the Chieftain to convert it as soon as I have the extra money.

So yeah, I still love combos for plenty of applications, but consider my mind VERY much opened to the pluses of a closed-back 412.

Dang, sick amp collection

Never had the privilege of trying a Chieftain, or any Matchless amp for that matter. Would you say it's worth, say $3K...I mean, considering a used twin can be had for about nearly 1/3rd of that amount?

Total overkill for me these days, I don't have the slightest excuse for spending a fortune on an amp I consider to be in the boutique bees knees category.
But I could easily justify buying one if I sell my other amps, and I'm kinda starting to think that no Orange/Fender/Marshall/Vox/Blackstar out there comes remotely close to where I want it to be in terms of build quality and features. Nice amps to be found there, but the few times I played an amp that actually inspired me and gave me a boner, opposed to 'doing an okay job', it turned out to be a pricey ptp handbuild mahfakker Mid priced stuff seems to give me either great cleans or great drive tones, not to mension chinese tubes, a tiny transformer, a thin chinese pcb, etc...
My main work horse these days is a vintage Traynor YBA-1. Build like a tank, top notch parts and all that. But it's loud as fuck, and obviously doesn't have a drive channel, no reverb, no fx loop,...

Srry for derailing the thread btw

Haha we all derail. I don't think anybody gets mad about it... not like we're changing the topics to the subtleties of different Timmy pedals or other TGP-esque crap

The Chieftain and the Twin are WAY different. Yes, the Chieftain is Matchless's most "American" amp, but all of their stuff uses British power tubes. Seems like their amp that gets the most attention is the C30, but I'm not a big EL84 guy, always found them to be a little too glassy/brittle. I love EL34s though... the Chieftain and the Clubman 35 (pretty similar circuits) sound fucking fantastic. I prefer having the amp just on the verge of breakup, but it also sounds amazing really cranked. As for the price, they're definitely super high—I lucked out and got an artist price years ago (probably bought it in like '05?), but honestly I'd probably be willing to pay full price. Of all the amps I've owned, that's the best sounding and most versatile. One downside of it, though: INSANELY heavy. Converting it to a head will be a good move for my back, haha.

I think there are a lot of good amps in the lower price range, though. Played a Bassbreaker recently and was pretty impressed. People always shit on Devilles, but I like them. Of course it all depends on what you're playing—I don't really do anything doomy, more indie rockish stuff with a lot of note definition in chords, etc.

Haven't played enough EL84 power amps to be sure it's the tubes or something else about those particular amps...But I did not get along with the cleans of the Vox AC15 and AC30 I had, nor with the cleans of the tiny terror combo I've got now, and contrary to what most people seel to think, I DONT think the AC30/AC15 sounds good with fuzz peds

The tt is more than decent at crunch/drive stuff though, which makes it okay for home noodling and pedlol noise sessions. I played a ton of EL34 amps, really prefered them to all the non-EL34 amps. So yeah, I guess that makes me an EL34 guy too.

I've had a bunch of bad quality control related experiences in the past, with a number of different amps/brand/models. Pretty much the only amps that haven't let me down -not counting normal wear or abuse from my part- were build in an era when high quality was standard for big amp companies. So that's why I'm considering buying the sort of amp I couldn't afford when I was a kid, without making any sort of compromise. I *still* can't afford a $3K amp though...

BUT...The head version of the Chieftain would cost me considerably less, and like you mensioned, solve the weight thing nicely

Using at home on my 4x12 cab is far from ideal I guess, but than again, the volume difference between that and the 2x12 combo would be neglectable I suppose. Come to think of it, that'd be the only thing the chieftain is missing for me...Some sort of power scaling option :/
Or does the master volume make it maneagble enough at living room volumes, without choking the shit out of it?

[waltdogg]

el84s are usually run at the maximum edge of their operating range, which leaves them with little to no headroom.